Jelks Table Number, when was it made?

[Chris]

Hi, recently purchased a Jelks table with turned legs and would like to know a bit more about its history, searched the forum looking for date info but no joy, hope the group can help
1.
Often see Jelks/Jelkes tables for sale, my understanding it is W JELKS & SONS LONDON, any reason it is often spelt JELKES.
2.
I can find on the table frame W JELKS & SONS LONDON stamped on the front and side rails, any other area of the table that I would find the name?
3.
Trying to roughly date the table, the turned legs have 4 threads per inch, after reading a thread from Sav about table repairs this means the table is post-war. Finding various serial numbers so presume over the years when back for re-furb bits have been swapped between other tables.
The serial number stamped on the leg, frame and drop down bar is 996. Any records available that date it from the serial number.
4.
On the Slate it has black 3 inch number 602's, is this a table serial number again i.e. top went with 602 frame originally.
5.
The hinged down back board is stamped 532

Thanks Chris

[Chris_Sav]

Hi and welcome,

1) Yes the name gets spelled both ways

2) Some are stamped, some are not.

3) Yes I have rarely seen a true original table. All the legs, frames, slates, scoreboards are normally mix 'n match. I doubt that any records of manufacture exist. Tne only possible people that might help are Bar Billiards Ltd of Ascot, the principle table operators 01344 626244.

When you say 'turned' legs, are they round or hexagonal in the middle?? round legs are normally approx 3½ threads per inch. Is it possible the legs have been drilled out and a post thread inserted?? Bar Billiards ltd only have a 4 TPI thread cutter. The frame numbers are a fairly early table, hence my suspicion.

4) As per 3) mix 'n match. You say 602S could it be 602B?? B was used to distinguish the last few made

Not a lot of help I am afraid, whereabouts are you??

Sav.

I would like to add a comment for the first Chris, congratulations on your purchase.
If it is as sound as you have conveyed from your description, you have a rare piece of antique furniture which you should stick on your household insurance as valued over a thousand pounds.
Treat it with the loving care it deserves, as good examples becoming more and more difficult to come by.

[Chris_Sav]

Just here looking at the other non members question, galls me when people ask the experts, get an answer and then cannot be bothered to acknowledge the effort.

Sav

[Chris]

Sav,
thanks for the reply and information.
Apologies if it looks as though I was not going to reply.
Located in Sheffield, South Yorkshire so quite a long way from all the league action.
The table I have purchased is in overall general good condition but I have decided to strip down and re-polish etc.

I have now also come across 996 on the under front rail of the ball return tray as well as on the back of the ball return score rail.
If I find any other number locations I will update this link.

In Sheffield I have only come across one pub that has a table.
Anyone know of any other pubs in the South Yorkshire/North Derbyshire area that have a table?
Thanks again Chris

[Chris_Sav]

No problem,

Whilst you have it stripped down make sure the corner blocks are tight.

Email me if you want tips on recovering.

Sav.

[Herr von Puebik]

I could do with tips on recovering every Saturday morning

Chris said:

Anyone know of any other pubs in the South Yorkshire/North Derbyshire area that have a table?
Thanks again Chris

There used to be a South Yorkshire league centred round Doncaster, so with a bit of luck one or two tables remain.

And a quick internet search reveals that the Gardeners Rest in Sheffield and the Golden Ball in York have bar billiards, fingers crossed that that is still the case.

[Michael]

Dear all,
Many thanks for such useful info all around the forum...!
I have a mahogany Jelkes with hexagonal legs, it has 173B on each side at the front, and 179B behind the scoreboard...
Does anyone know the exact year?
Cheers,
Michael

[Colemanator]

Michael said:

Dear all,
Many thanks for such useful info all around the forum...!
I have a mahogany Jelkes with hexagonal legs, it has 173B on each side at the front, and 179B behind the scoreboard...
Does anyone know the exact year?
Cheers,
Michael

Hi,

Where are you based?
Those numbers sound like part numbers, they have nothing to do with the date.

First of all to Chris, the guy based in Sheffield, South Yorkshire:
Some interest has been generated recently in a TV Programme made 30 years ago known as "Indoor League" starring Fiery Fred Trueman, and highlighting the pub games Darts, Shove-ha'penny, Table Skittles, and of course Bar Billiards.
People from South Yorks were featured heavily, and it remains the only real exposure bar billiards has ever had on National TV. A DVD is available of it now.

Michael,
In answer to your request to date your table, quite simply, pre-war Jelkes tables have round legs and post-war Jelkes tables have hexagonal legs. So your table would have been made probably between 1945 and 1949.

[Michael]

Thanks C & T for your replies. Good to know it's late forties.

I'm in North London. Been to the Glasshouse Stores +1 hr away a couple of times, great beer :D Nice, oak/turned legs, in a seemingly perfect cul-de-sac, though leeway's a bit scarce on the sides... Wobbly, but good! I think the sheer beauty of the table makes up for everything else...

Yours is the first write-up we have on the Glasshouse Stores.

As you're in London, have you tried visiting the Pembury Tavern in Hackney (E8 1JH) as a matter of interest ?

I looked in on the Selkirk at Tooting Broadway, and gave an account of my experience in the thread "London Bar Billiards ?"

Although the game is not played competitively in London there should still be a few tables dotted about - and it is always interesting to know where these places are.

[Michael]

Well the GS is a Sam Smith pub; they have superb "organic" and "Alpine" beers... but their own brands of whiskey & rum! ::)

Never been to Hackney. It's quicker to get to PARIS than other parts of London these days!! 2.5 hrs by Eurostar. Took me 3 hrs to Croydon, TWICE! It's odd how there aren't many tables in Lon. I read somewhere that The Trafalgar on the King's Rd in Chelsea has a table. Don't go there too often (£££££) but if I do, I'll let you know what it's like!

[Chris_Sav]

Looking back at this old thread as we have been looking at history recently.

When is a Jelks not a Jelks?? something I have learned recently.

Nov 23, 2006 19:18:42 GMT Chris_Sav said:

3) Yes I have rarely seen a true original table. All the legs, frames, slates, scoreboards are normally mix 'n match. I doubt that any records of manufacture exist.
Sav.

You can sort of forgive the mixing 'n' matching on an old Jelkes that has had plenty of use. (As with Trigger's "original broom" with three new handles and the brush replaced six times). Some are fitted with a tachometer, Margo's had 18,052 games registered on it when bought in 2006.

What irks me is when a table which is obviously not a Jelkes (which should have either round or hexagonal legs) is fitted with a Jelkes backboard. Probably not intentionally to mislead, but it just looks so wrong.

[Chris_Sav]

Goes deeper than that Clive, Jelks went tits up in the late fifties, as far as I am aware prior to when the final 'Jelks' were made.

So what is the meaning of your mysterious comment thus ?

When is a Jelks not a Jelks?? something I have learned recently.

[Sir Chancelot]

Feb 7, 2015 17:58:10 GMT tommo III said:

So what is the meaning of your mysterious comment thus ?

When is a Jelks not a Jelks?? something I have learned recently.

Will you walk with me Grasshopper ?

[Chris_Sav]

My learned friend from Stelling Minnis tells me that the 'B' tables were not made by Jelks, Jelks having ceased trading.

I always believed that 'B' tables were 'B' for best (good old grapevine).

Whereas the actual reason they had a 'B' prefix was that they were a new batch ordered after Jelks folded and they simply started numbering from 1 again, only with a 'B' prefix. Thus if he is correct 'B' tables are not Jelks but lookalikes! I'm trying to find out where they were made.

Some of the Jelks originals are pretty crudely put together (eg a couple of nails holding the corner blocks) and I shall have a close look at Bournemouth for any differences. It may be that the 'B' tables are better but not for the reason I believed!

More reason why we must get a definitive history produced.