Best board game ?

What are your ten favourite board games, and what order of preference would you give them ?

Here's mine:
1 Chess
2 Kingmaker
3 Monopoly
4 Scrabble
5 Cluedo
6 Draughts
7 Chinese Chequers
8 Ludo
9 Ergo
10 Othello


I have had some fantastic games of chess with Mr H; Mario; Lloydy; ChunkyMonkey; Nigel; Champs; Barry Holt; Ian Lelliott, and Gandalf.
But enough of that, the one I'm shortly going to dwell on is the number two on the list - Kingmaker.

Jul 29, 2013 17:04:00 GMT tommo III said:

Back in the late 1970s an excellent board game was brought out called Kingmaker, all about the protagonists of the Wars of the Roses: I remember buying it for my sister as a Christmas present. She still owns it in excellent condition and these days it is very rare and commands prices in excess of £60 on Amazon and eBay. However I've just managed to land a set for £29 !

The set arrived, in pristine condition (with no pieces missing). First game played last night.
Attachment Deleted
I should first explain that the fascination of this game is that it offers the chance to re-write history ! The rules are mighty complicated and a seven-part tutorial is available to see on YouTube. Each player works towards getting a royal figure crowned but the succession within the rival houses must be followed. With nobles, high offices, troops, ships, battles, royalty, castles, cathedrals, bishops, parliament, and coronations it's complicated enough, but on top of that there are event cards stating plague, peasants revolt, and movement and sometimes deaths of particular nobles which serve to thwart the best-laid plans. It is quite true to say that no two games will turn out the same !

[BB Warrior]

Aug 6, 2013 16:12:58 GMT tommo III said:

Back in the late 1970s an excellent board game was brought out called Kingmaker, all about the protagonists of the Wars of the Roses: I remember buying it for my sister as a Christmas present. She still owns it in excellent condition and these days it is very rare and commands prices in excess of £60 on Amazon and eBay. However I've just managed to land a set for £29 !

Not a game that I have heard of before, although it sounds good....

My personal choices would be...

1) Risk
2) Chess
3) Trivial Pursuit
4) Monopoly
5) Backgammon
6) Scrabble
7) Exploration
8) Cluedo
9) Game of Life
10) Ludo

Glad to say that my kids love playing board games (and cards) nearly as much as they like Playstation and X-Box.....

Trivial Pursuit - ah !
I do not have fond memories of that......
Our cousins from Hertfordshire used to visit at my mum's house at Christmas, and my sis bought a set when it first came out. There was a family challenge and the Smiths from Herts who are ultra-competitive prevailed.
The following year my sister held her own in the challenge (she had memorised 3,000 answers) but my brother and I let the side down.

I still like cheese though!

[Mark James]

Tommo, I can heartily endorse your enthusiasm for Kingmaker. Although I haven't seen it in many years, when I was at Uni back in the mid to late 70s I was part of a group of friends who played this game to an extent bordering on obsession. I'd almost forgotten it's existence until reading your post. A wonderful game.

Thank you, Mark. Obviously the luck of the original cards drawn plays a large part, but the real skills lie in handling often limited resources. Plus a memory of what's gone (as in whist) and playing the percentages (as in Bridge).

In the hands dealt last night, player one had some good nobles and troop cards, player two had both archbishops but only minor nobles, and player three (me) had a good spread of cards with nobles, officialdoms and two ships.

Player two's ambitions were thwarted by not being able to control a royal piece for his archbishops to crown. Player three (me) had various stratagems, mainly centred around my seapower, but whilst heading for the castles in North Wales I only got as far as Weymouth before losing one of my ships' occupants in the plague. My other ship was obliged to head back east, collecting Richard of Gloucester from Calais en route to London and Colchester.

Early in the game Margaret of Anjou and Richard Duke of York were killed in battles, whilst George Duke of Clarence got stranded in Ipswich when his accompanying noble was killed in the Peasant's Revolt. Player three (me) was the main aggressor, laying siege at Dover, Colchester and Coventry, but I bit off more than I could chew when I lost the battle of York.....

Trouble was, player one had Neville, Earl of Warwick and I had underestimated the strength of his forces ! He was left with an "unholy alliance" of the Lancastrian Henry VI/Edward Prince of Wales and the Yorkist Edward Earl of March/Richard of Gloucester who he had captured when my main noble Fitzalan was killed. This left player one the outright winner as he controlled four key royal pieces including the incumbent monarch Henry VI - without of course the need of a coronation!

What a fascinating and educational tool Kingmaker is proving to be.......as Tony said earlier, all the shenanigans of the Wars of the Roses are difficult to get one's head round, and I have been recently led to discover that I was under the misapprehension that the mnemonic "Richard of York gave battle in vain" was a reference to King Richard III at Bosworth field- when in fact it referred instead to his father:
the-hazel-tree.com/2012/09/30/richard-of-york-gave-battle/

Anyway, game 2 was played last night and concluded on the time limit of 3 hours with said Richard of York being crowned in Durham cathedral at the instigation of Baronet Grey of Chillingham as a rival king to Henry VI, with the future Richard III remaining stranded throughout the game in Calais ! (We recall game 1 was more faithful to actual historical events, with Henry VI keeping his throne with the aid of Warwick.) In real life Richard of York died at Wakefield and the baronetcy of Chillingham was not created until the 17th century !

In brief, Player 2 started with Cromwell capturing Richard of York, Grey deploying to Durham, Mowbray capturing George of Clarence in Wales, and Talbot boarding the ship Le Michael at Bristol with 100 men with the idea of joining forces with Mowbray.
I as Player 3 had a strange hand, top-heavy with Nobles but without any real power. Stanley stuck in the Isle of Man without any ship to transport him - but at least I had Neville(=Warwick). So, no subtlety possible here, Howard and Pole combined to capture Margaret at Fotheringhay, Clifford captured Henry VI in London, and Neville and Hastings together captured Edward of Lancaster at Coventry.

Player 1 with some formidable forces had Fitzalan as Marshall of England, and lay siege to London, a battle which he won easily as he outnumbered Clifford by 13 to 1, seizing the king in the process. Meanwhile Percy redeployed to Berwick ready to board ship, whilst Roos and Audley laid siege to York where they were confident of overwhelming Cromwell and seizing heir presumptive Richard. However, weather intervened to cause delay!

As play came round again, Mowbray (accompanying George of Clarence) linked up with Edward of March at Harlech and Talbot set sail from Bristol to head for Beaumaris. And Cromwell fleed York to join Grey at Durham along with Richard of York !

Player 3, seeing a coronation in the offing, sent Howard, Pole and Margaret of Anjou to Leicester; and Neville, Hastings and Edward of Lancaster also to Leicester to join forces.

Player 1, sensing two powerhouses developing at Leicester and Durham, put Percy aboard ship at Berwick and moved Roos and Audley to lay siege at Durham. He then used a Writ to summon Parliament, to which he invited Neville. Percy, Talbot, Howard, Hastings and Stanley also joined the party, Percy sailing from Berwick and Stanley from the Isle of Man. But with no chancery cards available, only minor reshuffles were possible. And once again the siege was delayed. This allowed player 2 to crown a rival king Richard of York at Durham, using the Bishops of Durham and Carlisle held by Grey.

At this point time was called and a points tally-up showed player 2 (who held all the York royal house) the winner with 945pts, followed by player 2 (still with the weak King Henry) on 730pts, and finally player 3 (myself) with the remaining Lancastrians all eggs in one basket at Leicester last with 525pts.

2 games gone and player 3 yet to win a game ! Must do better..........

[BigPhilMac]

1. Monopoly
2. Scrabble
3. Cluedo
4. Frustration
5. Chess
6. Draughts
7. Checkers
8. Rummikub (not played it to be fair ;))
9. Snakes and Ladders
10. 21 Questions, i think thats what its called!

Some personal favourites :D

I doubt if you've ever seen Kingmaker, Phil, being a child of the nineties !

Game three was played last night, took 5 hours, had much maritime action, and saw me win at last, but it took a huge slice of luck to do it.....

In brief, Player 1 built a real stronghold in London which discouraged any sieges, but a chance event (plague) wiped out virtually all his forces along with Henry VI. Earlier he had captured two Yorkist Princes Edward and George in Wales and brought them to London - only to have them murdered !

With most of Player 3's forces diverted 'oop north (a peasant's revolt and a Scottish raid) the opportunist Player 2 then converged on London with Henry's widow Margaret and a coronation in mind.

Whilst Player 2 was taking London, Player 3 (myself) used York as a stronghold to join nobles with Richard of York, and brought Richard of Gloucester over from Calais, establishing him at Norwich. Player 2 linked two more nobles up at Berkeley and joined forces in London, but Player 3 moved quickly to bring a larger force (along with the two Richards) and laid siege, there following a Yorkist victory by 420:330. With Margaret of Anjou now deceased, Player 2's Beaufort becomes Lancastrian heir presumptive.

As Player 3 now held London, he served a writ summoning Parliament: upon distribution of Chancery, his nobles became all-powerful and included the control of an Archbishop. All conflict ended with the coronation of Richard of York in London by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Full transcript of the game - all 3 pages of it - here !
Attachment Deleted

In real life of course, Richard of York never achieved his ambitions, so I was very careful to avoid Wakefield where he had died in battle and had his head chopped off and put on a spike...

[Coleman Jnr]

Its got to be

1. Totopoly
2. Formula 1
3. Trivial Pursuit
4. Monopoly
5. Chess
6. Game of Life
7. Guess Who
8. Cluedo
9. Draughts
10. Scrabble

The first two being way before my time, but classics my dad found in the loft and we quite frequently get out and play. Totopoly and Formula 1 are both similar strategy games, with the first being horse racing and the second obviously formula one. You control numerous pieces and roll the dice to make your way around the track, with certain consequences popping up which can speed you up, slow you down, or take you out the race completely!


I have actually just found out Totopoly was first created in the 1940's!

Aug 12, 2013 7:58:22 GMT Coleman Jnr said:

Its got to be
1. Totopoly

I have actually just found out Totopoly was first created in the 1940's!

Totopoly, yes, I remember family gatherings (at Christmas) in the 1950s when the board came out and my uncles and aunts used to play but I was considered to young to be allowed to join in as it 'involved gambling'. Looked a good game though from my remote vantage point !

You're the second person to mention Game of Life.....will have to investigate that one !

[Coleman Jnr]

Game of life is basically where you all gain a career and family, and then work your way around the board trying to earn as much money as possible, however the more possessions you own the more chance you have of losing it all. Person with the most wealth at the end wins.

Lol - a Capitalist's dream !

Sadly it doesn't work like that in real life, as there are too many con artists out there.

Unless you happen to be a national treasure like Simon Cowell - or Richard Branson - or David Beckham (why is he so celebrated in this country when he hasn't played for an English club for a whole ten years ?)

[BigPhilMac]

Aug 11, 2013 20:29:00 GMT tommo III said:

I doubt if you've ever seen Kingmaker, Phil, being a child of the nineties !

Game three was played last night, took 5 hours, had much maritime action, and saw me win at last, but it took a huge slice of luck to do it.....

In brief, Player 1 built a real stronghold in London which discouraged any sieges, but a chance event (plague) wiped out virtually all his forces along with Henry VI. Earlier he had captured two Yorkist Princes Edward and George in Wales and brought them to London - only to have them murdered !

With most of Player 3's forces diverted 'oop north (a peasant's revolt and a Scottish raid) the opportunist Player 2 then converged on London with Henry's widow Margaret and a coronation in mind.

Whilst Player 2 was taking London, Player 3 (myself) used York as a stronghold to join nobles with Richard of York, and brought Richard of Gloucester over from Calais, establishing him at Norwich. Player 2 linked two more nobles up at Berkeley and joined forces in London, but Player 3 moved quickly to bring a larger force (along with the two Richards) and laid siege, there following a Yorkist victory by 420:330. With Margaret of Anjou now deceased, Player 2's Beaufort becomes Lancastrian heir presumptive.

As Player 3 now held London, he served a writ summoning Parliament: upon distribution of Chancery, his nobles became all-powerful and included the control of an Archbishop. All conflict ended with the coronation of Richard of York in London by the Archbishop of Canterbury.

Full transcript of the game - all 3 pages of it - here !
View Attachment

In real life of course, Richard of York never achieved his ambitions, so I was very careful to avoid Wakefield where he had died in battle and had his head chopped off and put on a spike...

Now youve said that i am eagre to have a try at Kingmaker as it sounds like my sirt of game! Im ashamed to of never come across it at some point in my life!

Aug 28, 2013 16:42:32 GMT BigPhilMac said:

Now youve said that i am eagre to have a try at Kingmaker as it sounds like my sirt of game! Im ashamed to of never come across it at some point in my life!

Don't go there, Phil !

As Mark James suggested, the game is seriously addictive: I am now on my 12th game and have spent about 72 hours in the last 2 weeks playing it by myself with 2 dummy hands.

A typical tommo day now includes a 3-hour session from 10pm to 1am. then off to bedders and up again at 6am to finish the game off. Sad g!t !
Couldn't play tonight as I had bar billiards.

Have now had every combination of crowned royal except for George of Clarence (younger brother of Edward IV and elder brother of Richard III) who in real life was found guilty of treason and was drowned in a vat of wine.

An added quirk is that Edward IV has become Edward V and Richard III has become Richard IV on more than one occasion !

[BigPhilMac]

Aug 28, 2013 22:43:42 GMT tommo III said:

Aug 28, 2013 16:42:32 GMT BigPhilMac said:

Now youve said that i am eagre to have a try at Kingmaker as it sounds like my sirt of game! Im ashamed to of never come across it at some point in my life!

Don't go there, Phil !

As Mark James suggested, the game is seriously addictive: I am now on my 12th game and have spent about 72 hours in the last 2 weeks playing it by myself with 2 dummy hands.

A typical tommo day now includes a 3-hour session from 10pm to 1am. then off to bedders and up again at 6am to finish the game off. Sad g!t !
Couldn't play tonight as I had bar billiards.

Have now had every combination of crowned royal except for George of Clarence (younger brother of Edward IV and elder brother of Richard III) who in real life was found guilty of treason and was drowned in a vat of wine.

An added quirk is that Edward IV has become Edward V and Richard III has become Richard IV on more than one occasion !

That is mental! Have you watched the White Queen tommo? My mother watches it and i remember encountering the scene when George was drowned in wine. For many im sure thats the way to go!

Well you know how to enjoy life clearly ;) damn billiards interfering like that ;)

Aug 29, 2013 8:00:33 GMT BigPhilMac said:

Have you watched the White Queen tommo? My mother watches it and i remember encountering the scene when George was drowned in wine. For many im sure thats the way to go!

Yes, was discussing that with Barbelman on the thread "Compulsive TV Viewing"......I now have the three Philippa Gregory books to read (in the garden if the summer holds out), but intended first to read Ken Follett's The Pillars of the Earth which is similar historical fiction but touching on the Henry I / Matilda / Stephen era of a few centuries earlier, starting with the tragedy of the White Ship.

I think the main fascination about the Wars of the Roses era is that the country was run by the landed gentry, rather than by politicians (you could say the House of Lords instead of the present-day House of Commons)

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Also if you look at the design of the board, conceived in 1970, the main roads seem to follow present-day motorways - the A1(M) M4, M3, M2 etc, (very prophetic) whilst the four main cities at the time (AD 1453) were London, York, Norwich and Bristol: There is no mention whatsoever of Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield, Leeds - or - bah - Milton Keynes !

You might find this of interest:
There is a computer version of the game, produced by Avalon Hill in 1994, which reproduces the look and play of the board game almost exactly, allowing the player to compete with up to five computer controlled factions. The major change from the board game is the addition of a battle interface where the player can control their army in combat, but it is very simplistic and the option to resolve battles by the original method remains. The game is no longer produced but can be found for download.