Help Required - Fill in the blanks

[The Chubbster™]

Evening all,

Had a bit of time this evening, so thought I would work on something I started a while ago.

barbilliards.jimdo.com/national-tournaments/


I'll be continuing to update this page as and when I have time, and I'm in negotiations with a couple of people with regards to filling up the "how to play" page. Some of you that follow my ramblings will put 2 and 2 together and know what that means lol

But anyway, I need people's help regarding the Semi finalists mainly. I'm thinking Nigel (who I believe still has all my old copies of the bbq) but also anyone else that can help me fill in the blanks. Just what's there at the moment, needless to say I have more to add. Also pictures (especially of the trophies) and someone in the know willing to write a couple of short paragraphs about each about each tournament would be great.

Another cool thing, I logged onto the Bar Billiards twitter account I created a while back when I was tweeting real time updates of the Sussex Singles. It seems that Bar Billiards has gained 30 extra followers..... for doing absolutely nothing!  Something to be positive about I guess.

Anyway, any help or information people have would be great. Just add it to this thread, or PM me if you have detailed records you can email or something.

Cheers

[The Chubbster™]

Just realised you are probably all wondering what the website is about. I'll give you a quick overview.

As you all know I'm a tech guy, and I firmly believe that to bring Bar Billiards kicking and screaming into the modern day, we need to use the tools that predominantly people will be using to get information in this day and age, namely the web and various forms of social media. That's the best way to target a new generation IMHO

We've had this discussion before, but I started this a while ago but due to time and other commitments I never got around to seeing the job through. Given that I have a little time over the next week, I thought I would continue to work on the idea. This is one step.

It was my aim to link this with a twitter account, so that people could follow Bar Billiards info and have information sent to them using mainstream communication methods such as twitter, rather than relying on people to look it up for themselves. I was looking at making a quick instruction video on how to play the game, because I don't believe that just presenting people on a night out who spot a table with a set of bland rules is the way to engage them and encourage them to play the game. Everyone has phones these days that can stream info from YouTube, and more importantly young people in particular use facebook and twitter etc.

This is not designed to replace or overtake anything that the AEBBA is doing, nor do I want it to be a massive resource of records and stats like the AEBBA website. I just wanted a one stop shop where people who were genuinely interested in what the game was about could look up all the info they need, find tables near to them, learn about the game and it's history, and more importantly "follow" what's going on at the push of a button.

So there you have it. Can't promise I'll be able to see it all though (actually I tell a lie, I won't). But these things can be jointly administers and run so I might as well attempt to get it off the ground, and the good thing is I'm setting it up using only methods, sites and mediums that are easy to run and understand (i.e. the less technically people in the world could still run very simply).... no high level coding is being done here! I had enough of coding just with all those silly results tables that nobody seems to use apart from me lol

Anyway there you have it. Help would be greatly appreciated with regards to the above post. I'll do my best, but I can't promise anything.

Cheers everyone.

Good luck - the Northants Twitter and Facebook accounts have been live for a few months now and have proven to be a great success. There is much banter and communication as well as score updates from pretty much every team each league and competition night with pics and humour too!

We now use it it create events and log attendees for fundraisers and socials etc.

All in all it is going really well.

My feeling is that it is very much worth doing.

Could I also ask that when you add content to the 'Links' it would be appreciated if you could link to our website.

www.northantsbarbilliards.org

Many thanks.

Oh and please follow us on Twitter @northbarbill

Cheers

[The Chubbster™]

Thanks Elsie, that's great to hear and very encouraging indeed. Well done to you guys up there in Northants.

The twitter account I have is @barbilliards (so original!) Feel free to follow it and I will do the same. Also do give me the links etc and I'll factor them into this little endeavour. If you have followers etc that is a great start, and could really help get this off the ground.

I was thinking of using a standard blogging platform linked inside the front page of this site im building, a news feed so to speak. That way it could have multiple admins who could easily post news from around the country extremely easily from just something like a iphone app, and at the touch of a button it would be nicely formatted and live on the web. If that's something you are interested in helping with, then do let me know. In fact, any help at all would be great. That goes for everyone. Am more than happy to make this a community endeavour. I've been a community of one before... it was pretty brutal. Thank the lord Chris Saville came into my life lol

I'll also look at setting up a live twitter feed pinned to a specific hashtag for anyone who wants there news mentioned in the feed roll, that way people who don't have twitter will still get the benefit of seeing all that goes on.


Anyway, thanks for your kind words mate.

And one more thing - the hashtags we have been using are:

#northantsbarbilliards
#barbilliards
#northbarbill

Cheers

[The Chubbster™]

Thanks once again.

[Chris_Sav]

With all due respect old buddy, any new national site springing up is a duplication of effort with the AEBBA site.

That I recognise is very stale, but it is the central resource. I have had no interest in rebuilding it as, quite frankly, it bores me silly to do any more than add results and there never has been any leadership from the AEBBA committee to move things forward.

My view is that it would make far more sense to discuss and design a new front end for the AEBBA site whilst leaving the historical stuff for the purists accessible. This is part of the area I would have envisaged a Publicity Officer working in.

We need a new attractive front end that appeals to the casual browser with links to the existing stuff for results and stats. The site as is now is about as interesting to the non bar billiards aficionado as the history behind a nine inch Fletton brick. It must have an attractive front page and sub pages, NOT STATS, and captures casual/curious visitors before we drown them with introverted statistics. The Northants site is a move in the right direction, though I am not in favour of uncontrolled areas such as Facebook.

I am NOT prepared to continually design fresh new pages that are needed to keep the site fresh but I am sure a web team could work from this forum and give me pages that are easy to add.

Sav

[The Chubbster™]

Agree with what your saying overall Sav. However i'm afraid that working on the AEBBA site is not something I'm prepared to do.

What you say about appealing to the non Bar Billiards user is the reason I cooked this up. In fact ive been trying hard to not put things on there that are already on the AEBBA. This I envisioned as more of a general site, and to let the cat out of the bag, the how to play was going to be videos, and the history was going to be as in-depth and colour as history as I could cobble together. That and the twitter account could then have been handed over.

I personally think there is room for 2 such sites. One for the official organisation, one as a "fan site" so to speak. Plus it gives the perception at least the Billiards is more of a widespread appeal, and not just a small group of people with limited resources. I actually worry when we put all our eggs in one basket. In truth it's just easier to do these things on my own rather than in any kind of official capacity.

That said I would not worry too much, and if people think it's actually counter productive then no bother. surprisingly since about 2:30 this morning all my enthusiasm for the game has suddenly left me and very quickly

Agree with what you say about the front end though. It's a vital point to make if we want to attract a new audience.

Impressive work from the Chubbster. I will be availing myself of the offer to use the Map icon on my own websites.

And also pertinent comment from Sav: yes I really feel that there is a niche for these pages as the "Front end" of the AEBBA website.

I have for a long time felt that the Forum covers many areas which should really come under the AEBBA website - an example being the Opens..........
In musical term we have the prelude (Official entry forms) and the coda (the results after the event stored for posterity) but the movement is missing: the Draw and the tables and times, which are only displayed on the Forum.

Glenn's efforts could be put to good use here, by inserting a facility within the AEBBA site to follow the events in real time like the Jersey website do it.

And the Hall of Fame on AEBBA still has its original format from the last century and could do with being refreshed and updated - much like Warrior has achieved on the Sussex website. Therein lies the natural home for all those stats.
[Edit......this has since been addressed by Nigel]

Such wonderful boundless creativity needs to find a niche, and Glenn at last we have found one for you !

Oh dear !
My post has crossed with Glenn's and I see that he's not too keen.

Just to say then that many of us from the shall we say - um - senior age bracket refuse to have anything to do with Facebook and Twitter.
I personally feel it is a bit of a shame that Northants have gone that way as it has channelled away all the fun we used to have on the Forum: I really miss those guys and their Tart points !

Fair enough, you might say, the new site is not for you, it's for new players who haven't played the game before. Okay, but you will then be excluding over half the bar billiards world. How elitist of you !

All you need for the newcomers is a single page website without mention of any champions or high scores - a complete turn-off for someone starting out to play.

[The Chubbster™]

Kind of you to say Tommo,

I think it's worth mentioning that sometimes small little details and ideas can help in a big way over the long run. That I believe is the so called "thinking outside the box" that people so dearly love to mention. It's one of the reasons I was going to trial this site.

For example, this site requires no coding. It can be maintained by anyone who can move a mouse around a screen and drag and drop things. I'm thinking that's a good thing in our community.

We lack an up to date news stream outside this forum if someone like Sav is not around the update the AEBBA website. That's why I was going to factor in an in-built 'newsfeed" so to speak, so that updating the site with information would be as easy as typing out a text message on your phone and pressing a button. No computer skills or even logging into the website would be required.

It's small things like that which I believe once people start to use will prove a big advantage in the long run. If we add the convenience and do so in a extremely easy to do way, then when it comes to publicity and raising awareness of the game.... given the rise of the internet I believe we are already half way there.

Hope that better explains what I was trying to do here. I was trying to pilot something as it's hard to explain the benefits of such things, especially in the Bar Billirds community, it's just easier to do it and show people. Much like this Forum, explaining it's benefits was a pointless idea to anyone I mentioned. Only once they saw it and gave it a go did they finally understand.

["Silent"]

Like it, a good read

[The Chubbster™]

Dec 17, 2013 11:41:26 GMT tommo III said:

Oh dear !
My post has crossed with Glenn's and I see that he's not too keen.

Just to say then that many of us from the shall we say - um - senior age bracket refuse to have anything to do with Facebook and Twitter.
I personally feel it is a bit of a shame that Northants have gone that way as it has channelled away all the fun we used to have on the Forum: I really miss those guys and their Tart points !

Fair enough, you might say, the new site is not for you, it's for new players who haven't played the game before. Okay, but you will then be excluding over half the bar billiards world. How elitist of you !

All you need for the newcomers is a single page website without mention of any champions or high scores - a complete turn-off for someone starting out to play.

There are some fair points there Tommo.

I think natural expansion of the game takes care of many of these issues. Take another pub game... Darts. How many darts websites and facilities are there? .... hundreds. No "one place" could ever please every single player. But the more people who engage then the wider the resources that pop up.

What you said about Northants is interesting, and whilst I agree with the sentiment (and also, im not a facebook lover) it's just the result of natural expansion of the game and the people in it.

I often wonder if the Bar Billiards community is held back somewhat because people are "happy the way things are". I mean think about it. 20,000 new players playing the game would make opens week long events, and players like myself go from have little chance of winning to it being pointless me even turning up.... such would be the level of talent. Take even the local level. Lets say for example I could recruit 500 new players to play in the Brighton league tomorrow. That's a 6-7 times expansion in talent in the league overnight. If your an inter-league player who enjoys playing with the same old faces once a mouth, would you welcome all these brilliant new players who could potentially take your place, or would you be upset because your no longer going out representing your league with you mate each and every month?

Strange thing to say I know, but could be the case. I've come up against it before I can assure you.  I think people are sometimes reluctant to change anything because they like the banter, the world, the level and the people they play with. Which is fair enough I guess.

[Chris_Sav]

Dec 17, 2013 11:13:15 GMT The Chubbster™ said:

Agree with what your saying overall Sav. However i'm afraid that working on the AEBBA site is not something I'm prepared to do.

I think that's a shame a design team coming up with a maintainable idea to advertise to and interest outsiders with a bright new front door to the AEBBA site is the way forward IMHO. The old site can hang off the back of it and gradually be updated as time allows.

One person diving in, full of enthusiasm, until he gets bored, when all is lost is not the way to do it. I have seen that happen so many times.

The forum is too sprawling and intimidating for outsiders and, you are correct, there is a major need to produce a resource that promotes the game, gives info on where it's played, tables and their purchase and repair, how to make contact etc. Guys like you and Lorin are the ones to take this forward, not staid old farts like me, but it must be in a controlled environment for the future. One man bands like me running the AEBBA site is a disaster waiting to happen when I fall off my push-bike.

I would hope to see all this enthusiasm channelled into something productive with a publicity team on here developing new ideas even possibly County info officers with better local knowledge. AEBBA not creating a Publicity Officer at the AGM does not prevent us from making a start, Rome wasn't built in a day and one of the fifty two weeks until next year's AGM has already gone.

Sav  

Dec 17, 2013 12:10:26 GMT The Chubbster™ said:

What you said about Northants is interesting, and whilst I agree with the sentiment (and also, im not a facebook lover) it's just the result of natural expansion of the game and the people in it.

Have to disagree there, effectively the've 'gone underground' are are keeping themselves to themselves from now on - which is their prerogative, why should people like myself be entitled to join in with their fun ?

I often wonder if the Bar Billiards community is held back somewhat because people are "happy the way things are". I mean think about it. 20,000 new players playing the game would make opens week long events, and players like myself go from have little chance of winning to it being pointless me even turning up.... such would be the level of talent. Take even the local level. Lets say for example I could recruit 500 new players to play in the Brighton league tomorrow. That's a 6-7 times expansion in talent in the league overnight. If your an inter-league player who enjoys playing with the same old faces once a mouth, would you welcome all these brilliant new players who could potentially take your place, or would you be upset because your no longer going out representing your league with you mate each and every month?

Sorry, but I can't take this eulogy seriously at all ! - and it's fatuous to compare us with darts - as the only bit of kit you need is a darts board and a set of arrers......and no particular skill to begin with.

You will simply not get hordes of new bar billiards players overnight for two important reasons:
1. It is such a difficult game for a newcomer to master to a level of expertise - which is why as a pub pastime it was vanquished by Pool in the 1980's, and
2. The lack of kit to play on. Find a pub with a bar billiards table and you have found the exception rather than the rule. Many youngsters who chance upon us in the Mill House on league night say "what's this game I've never seen it before ?".

Gone are the days when every pub in Crawley had a table and you had to queue with a coin on the table for at least an hour to get a game. Sadly those days will never return.

[The Chubbster™]

You will simply not get hordes of new bar billiards players overnight for two important reasons:
1. It is such a difficult game for a newcomer to master to a level of expertise - which is why as a pub pastime it was vanquished by Pool in the 1980's, and
2. The lack of kit to play on. Find a pub with a bar billiards table and you have found the exception rather than the rule. Many youngsters who chance upon us in the Mill House on league night say "what's this game I've never seen it before ?".

lol I agree with you Tommo. I was making an over-exaggerating example to prove a general feeling that I've come up against from time to time, that's all.

[Q]

Dec 17, 2013 9:05:27 GMT Chris_Sav said:

though I am not in favour of uncontrolled areas such as Facebook.

That's where you are wrong Chris, I have as much control over the group I have formed on Facebook as we do on here, its just a shame that hardly anyone bothers to post on it. I have 'invited' every Bar Billiard playing Facebook member that I know, yet there are only a couple of us who contribute, a certain Mr Chubbster who has big ideas for the game (and who I will back to the hilt) has yet to post, comment or 'like' on anything there!!

My idea for the group was to spread the BB word, I have publicised the group on all 'cue sport' pages/groups on facebook (that I can find) and I have asked everyone to recommend other pages/groups where we could add a link, there must be 'Whats on' or 'What do do' type sections for many of our counties, the ideal place to put a BB link, but nothing has been suggested.

I have had a few people ask to join the Facebook group from other disciplines, they too are 'economical' with their postings but like any of these things you need a variety of people posting to keep it interesting.

Dec 17, 2013 11:41:26 GMT tommo III said:

Just to say then that many of us from the shall we say - um - senior age bracket refuse to have anything to do with Facebook and Twitter.

Dont knock something if you haven't tried it Clive, you would be VERY suprised, Facebook has become a mecca for us oldies, there are probably as many of our generation as there are youngsters now


Incidently, the Facebook group has 98 members, not bad for a fairly new group

Dec 17, 2013 13:03:46 GMT Q said:

Dont knock something if you haven't tried it Clive, you would be VERY suprised, Facebook has become a mecca for us oldies, there are probably as many of our generation as there are youngsters now

I'm sure it has its merits, Q, but the simple truth is that if I made room for it in my life something else would have to go as I don't want to be a slave to computers more than I am already.

I will however be providing a link to your bar billiards Facebook site on the re-vamped M-S Hor and Bil websites when the time comes: That may help to put some more traffic your way.

tommo

[BigPhilMac]

Dec 17, 2013 0:59:54 GMT The Chubbster™ said:

Just made this for the site, but it occurred to me that others may find it useful, so please feel free to have/keep/use as you see fit. It's such an awesome resource and should be linked to as much as possible.

Comes in small and large

Im being rather stoopid here me thinks, im guessing that the black pegs on the map are non league, which would make sense given theres a table in the Shetland Islands! But on the other hand there are white pegs dotted here and there such as in Cornwall, but they arent league tables surely?

Stoopid no, intuitive yes !
You've actually spotted the exception, the rule of thumb being white marker equals league venue (peg for 3-pin, mushroom for 4-pin).

The Queens Bournemouth has a special gold marker as it hosts an important national tournament, and the one in Gunnislake Cornwall is a nod to Q who looks after a local table to matchplay standard in the forlorn hope of starting a Cornish league !

[BigPhilMac]

Ahhhh it sll makes sense now! Theres a ramdom one in Northern Ireland too, im guessing another potential league hopeful! Also an alteration to your map, the Staff Association club in Didcot is a league table in the Wallingford League :D and the Comrades Club table in Wallingford is non league :)

Thank you for that information, Phil. I will copy your note to the Map updates thread, and it will probably be Tony (Barbelman) actioning the amendment as Oxon is his neck of the woods.......

If you are interested in our back-up data for the non-League tables, you might find the threads under Rest of the UK enlightening: visit this Board to access them: Four Pin Leagues, Other Non Affiliated Mainland Areas and Overseas.