|
Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 12:12:43 GMT
For the record I said I was NOT an expert but only ventured a view. Which I now regret.
|
|
|
Post by triplex on May 15, 2014 13:08:57 GMT
I think the concern is that the tables will remain on the van at times when they are used frequently, thus the suspension could be stressed for weeks at a time. Yes, that is exactly the concern that I have, especially as we no longer have the Post Office Club as a permanent home for the tables. Provided that the tables are unloaded after every hire then (perhaps) the suspension will not be a problem. With regards to couriers, I must disagree with the points made as most of these carry large bulky items that are not necessarily particularly heavy, so they carry volume rather than excessive weight which should be the main concern for AEBBA, especially as tyres burst under the weight of the tables on the old truck which was frequently overloaded. Personally, I do not see what harm there would be in somebody finding out a price to get the suspension uprated (if it is possible on this model) before we commit to buying the van....even if we then don't actally do that at this time? One thing that I am pretty sure of is that it would be cheaper to uprate the suspension than to have to replace the entire suspension unit were it to fail in the future. I will leave it to others to make the decisions and say no more other than to hope that the "experts" here will be proved correct and that there is no cause for concern so please feel free to ignore my comments! They are only based on 29 years in the motor industry supplying nearly 200 vans a year to my customers, many of whom are courier companies, and none of them have had any problems with their vehicles as a result of my advice. Bit confused here as i thought the idea of this thread was for everyone to give their views on the subject, so the AEBBA can make a decision on which vehicle would be the best in the long term and also keep us within the law. At no time have I ever mentioned that I am an 'Expert' in this subject, I was just offering my opinion using my experience in dealing with commercial vehicles. I certainly won't be justifying my CV on here that's for sure.......... The only point I was trying to make was that I'm not sure how long we had the old van for but must of been for a while and if the only thing with the suspension after that period was a bit of corrosion then surely its not a main concern for worry, not saying its a bad idea to upgrade it. With reference to courier/ parcel delivery drivers, yes some carry pure bulk and some carry just weight, I deal with both types and they do try and cram every last bit in the van they can and more if they can get away with it. I may be completely wrong here, but how I understood it, that the tyres let us down because they were in such a poor condition and needed replacing prior to any incident. Unfortunately sometimes when people do try and help they get shot down immediately, not sure if that helps on encouraging people on here.
|
|
|
Post by BB Warrior on May 15, 2014 14:01:34 GMT
[Unfortunately sometimes when people do try and help they get shot down immediately, not sure if that helps on encouraging people on here. This is something that I can agree with both of you about. I was the only person to raise an opinion about the proposed van and make suggestions to try to ensure that the van gives many years of good service. For those comments, I was effectively shot down by both of you and told that my concerns were not relevant in your opinions, so I justified my comments and now you are upset. Sometimes the written words can be taken the wrong way, my apologies if I have caused either of you offence as I am sure you both also want AEBBA to have a reliable and good van to be able to continue to provide the tables for the competitions in the future, the same as I do, but I will now climb back under my rock again and leave this thread to others.
|
|
|
Post by milko on May 15, 2014 14:18:28 GMT
I think Sav should have put his post about the new truck on the thread already going and leave this thread for what it's meant to be for and that is appealing for donations for the new truck ! Milko (Apologies my dear leader )
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on May 15, 2014 14:28:45 GMT
I think Sav should have put his post about the new truck on the thread already going and leave this thread for what it's meant to be for and that is appealing for donations for the new truck ! Milko (Apologies my dear leader ) Yup agree with you venerable milko, it was posted as an update, did not expect debate to start, will sit corrected.
Sav
|
|
|
Post by milko on May 15, 2014 14:33:38 GMT
It would be nice if we could all stay friends over this, Sav asked for comments as it's good to have helpful advice and ideas at this difficult time for the AEBBA. Keep them coming until the decision is made and enough funds are available to buy the truck we badly need. Milko (Now where's that cough mixture and tissue box gone )
|
|
|
Post by milko on May 15, 2014 14:45:23 GMT
I think Sav should have put his post about the new truck on the thread already going and leave this thread for what it's meant to be for and that is appealing for donations for the new truck ! Milko (Apologies my dear leader ) Yup agree with you venerable milko, it was posted as an update, did not expect debate to start, will sit corrected.
Sav
Do you mean (vulnerable) Thanks anyway.
|
|
|
Post by Coleman Jnr on May 16, 2014 18:42:03 GMT
Just to clarify on the tyre side of it. You can calculate maximum load for a tyre by using the side markings. For instance the old Transits run on 195/70/15 104/102S, the 104/102 being the important bit. This equates to a maximum of 900kg per wheel for single axles (1800kg for rear axle) and 850kg per wheel for twin axles (3400kgs for rear axle), this size has been used for demonstration purposes only and has the values have no reflection on the vans you are looking at. Obviously even though all the weight is in the back that doesn't mean it is distributed all to the back wheels. If there is a possibility of a twin rear axle this will carry an advantage from the tyre side.
This is to be used as clarification only, I know everyone is working hard to try and tick all the boxes to find the right van, and working in tyres I thought I would just try to clear that side up. If you let me know the type of van I would be quite happy to calculate the maximum load tyres available and work out costs also as different sizes can be very costly.
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on May 16, 2014 19:33:13 GMT
Hi Stephen,
Thanks for the input, these are the suggestions I need to make sure I don't make a pig's ear of the purchase. I had not thought of checking the existing tyre loads on the van.
The target vehicle is a CITROEN RELAY 35, ENTERPRISE, L3 H3, 2.2HDi (120), 2008 (58) 47k miles van. The rear axle max load is 2000kg so the tyres need to be 108 at minimum (I guess). Citroen do a 'heavy' (double leaf springs) in the Relay model with higher axle loads but NOT in the L3H3 class.
To sum up what I have said before, this is the ONLY panel van that will take nine tables which is the maximum load and needed for Bournemouth and possibly Sussex and Kent opens.
I would prefer a Fiat Ducato (same body) but cannot find one in L3H3.
It has a square shape and the roof toes in less than Vauxhall/Renault etc. offerings which would make standing the tables against the sloping wall very difficult. It has a 1500kg payload It has 2 metres wall space in front of the arches to stand the tables against the wall.
The kerbside weight is 2000kg the legal max is 3500kg hence 1500kg payload. Other makes have a higher kerbside weight. We cannot have a van with any smaller payload. We cannot lay the tables on their sides they will not fit in this van and a longer van has less payload. We cannot have a bigger engine, lowers payload. We cannot have double rear wheels, lowers payload. Every driver I have talked to says steer clear of Transits once they are a few years old. My next door neighbour rebuilds damaged vans and says Transits (and Sprinters) are full of rot from an early age.
We need two metre headroom and 1400kgs payload and this van allows just enough leeway to toughen up the rear suspension if need be (an easy and not particularly expensive job on a FWD van). Also to weld in bracing bars if we need to support the tables in a frame in the van.
Watford Vans are the potential retailers of this most rare extra high roof van, mileage is warranted and the van has a guarantee and FSH. They unusually have a couple of others with even lower mileage but we cannot afford more, I am having almost no joy in beating down the price.
I plan to go see Watford Vans in the next few days.
|
|
|
Post by Coleman Jnr on May 17, 2014 6:25:26 GMT
Yeah 108 would equate to 2000kg over the rear of a single axle and according to my computer the model you are looking at has a tyre size which would accommodate such a required load rating, however without getting the size of the actual van you would never know for sure as manufacturers have a habit of trying to make things difficult and changing sizes even on like models!
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on May 17, 2014 12:09:05 GMT
I can confirm that I have paid a holding agreed refundable deposit on the target van.
We need more donations people, so if you have been thinking about it then please do!!
I plan, if all is well, to get the van as soon as it has been serviced some time next week. I will bring the van home here to look at how the tables will fit and, if necessary, get my next door neighbour to weld a holding frame in the van. I'll also get him to look at the rear suspension.
If anyone has any more suggestions or doubts, now is the time to air them please.
Best wishes,
Chris Saville.
|
|
|
Post by Chris on May 17, 2014 21:24:17 GMT
Whether I had an opinion or not - which I don't - I just want to say A HUGE BIG THANK YOU
|
|
|
Post by bigtj on May 18, 2014 9:13:14 GMT
Well done Chris unable to make a comment on the particular vehicle as my knowledge stops on putting the essentials in like petrol and oil.
So much time and effort put in is commendable and thank you to those with the knowledge for contributing their expertise.
|
|
|
Post by Ros on May 21, 2014 9:25:55 GMT
If anyone has any more suggestions or doubts, now is the time to air them please.
Best wishes,
Chris Saville. I may be too late here (having only just caught up with this thread) and will probably be shot down in flames or ignored anyway, but... Are you taking the kerbside weight from the spec. of the vehicle? If so, as weight is critical to the AEBBA, I would strongly recommend arranging to take the van to the nearest public weighbridge and having it weighed, before making a final commitment. Many things can happen/get changed/get added to a vehicle over a 6 year life and manufacturers specs are often 'optimised'.
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on May 21, 2014 9:41:34 GMT
Hi Ros,
Yes the van will be weighed as a safeguard to decide whether we can legally take the ninth table.
Hopefully we will not need to strip ply lining!
Sav.
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 3, 2014 14:53:35 GMT
To give a brief update as I have been away motorcycling.
Dave Alder, Phil Hawkins and myself went to see the target van last Thursday morning.
The result was that, I especially, felt that the van should be rejected as there were too many minor problems that suggested the vehicle had not been looked after.
Watford Vans had four other identical vehicles at other compounds and we were transported around in a black cab to examine them . This stock is most unusual as the extra high, three quarter length vans are rare.
The net result is that we have gone slightly further up market for one that appears in first class condition on a 58 plate with only 28k miles backed by a FSH. This unfortunately will cost us another £1k to make £12k, but it appeared too good to miss.
The van weighs in at 1860kgs thus has a payload of 1600kgs for tables etc. driver(s) and fuel. Ideal for what we need as nine tables weigh 1260kgs and it means Dave won't have to go on a diet . We still anticipate fitting rear spring assistors at some point.
We anticipate taking possession on Thursday and using it for the Sussex delivery so long as suitable anchor points exist.
£6500 has come from the ring fenced monies and the balance will be covered as a loan by Chrissie and myself. Thus, even though we have a van, we still need the fund-raising efforts to take place as AEBBA is going to be short of cash for a while.
Without all the sponsors and kind donations we would not be in this position of having light at the end of the tunnel, thank you to all (but keep collecting!).
Chris Saville.
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 5, 2014 15:19:58 GMT
We have a new van!!
Dave reports that it drives like a new van as it should with only 28k on the clock. It has a rev limiter fitted so should not have been thrashed.
It needs anchor points fitting and I have given Dave some ring bolts. It appears ideal for our purpose.
Please do not rest on the fund raising as AEBBA still owe Chrissies and I £5k.
Called in a pub at Kings Cross and bough a nice mahogany Jelkes as well! will look at a no cost to AEBBA swap out with the table most susceptible to damage through transport
Chris Saville..
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2014 16:31:26 GMT
Well done on not one but two good pieces of business ! Look forward to seeing the new van at the weekend ... the burgundy-clothed table also ?
|
|
|
Post by Chris on Jun 5, 2014 19:06:14 GMT
Thank you Chris, Dave and Phil for giving your time twice in two weeks to get this - totally appreciated !!!
|
|
|
Post by Sparky on Jun 5, 2014 20:02:56 GMT
Great News Thanks from me too go out to the Chrissies, Sav, Dave & Phil ..... and everyone else that helped in any way at all (offering thoughts, suggestions and viewpoints included). Keep those donations coming in
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 7, 2014 9:09:51 GMT
Dave Alder reports that the new van has been successfully used for the delivery of eight tables to Sussex.
It drives just as well full as it does empty, looks promising!!
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 11, 2014 9:02:28 GMT
Van and tables will be coming down to me for ten days after the Kent Classic to see what essential maintenance can be done in that time.
If you spot any problems this weekend then please let me know (with AEBBA table number, NOT KBBA competition number).
Sav
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 29, 2014 21:00:14 GMT
I identified some things I was not happy about with the van and got a free independent inspection done by my van centre. They identified a few items.
The van is being returned to Watford Vans tomorrow to have them fixed under the warrantee.
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Mar 24, 2015 14:51:47 GMT
The suspension is standard single leaf and the rear leaf spring is sitting on the bump stop at rest when loaded, clearly that cannot continue. New double leaf HD rear springs have been ordered and will be fitted in the next couple of days whilst I have the van.
Attachment Deleted
The spring is very flat and this is after unloading with very little clearance
Also the rear exhaust box has gone and Stephen Coleman has managed to source a good price on one, that will be fitted when Brian Dawkins does the what is intended to be the regular annual service for the MOT.
I must say the van is a pleasure to drive after the old Luton and cruises economically at its restricted top speed of 64mph over any gradient.
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Mar 26, 2015 14:07:23 GMT
Slight difference in curvature and much heavier new spring!
Attachment Deleted
One down, one to go.
|
|
|
Post by Chris_Sav on Mar 31, 2015 17:21:23 GMT
Rear springs have now been replaced. They had to be taken off again as the van was sitting too high and an adjusting spacer taken out.
The new springs are much stronger and hardly move with the full ton and a quarter load on board.
Stephen Coleman has an exhaust box and we are hoping that lasts until the Northants weekend.
|
|
|
Post by Coleman Jnr on Apr 1, 2015 13:15:57 GMT
Rear springs have now been replaced. They had to be taken off again as the van was sitting too high and an adjusting spacer taken out.
The new springs are much stronger and hardly move with the full ton and a quarter load on board.
Stephen Coleman has an exhaust box and we are hoping that lasts until the Northants weekend. I didn't think this through very well, when we collect the tables we don't use the van, thus meaning the van is never in my possession to fit the exhaust, however the part has arrived and I will take along with me to surrey!
|
|