A rule query

[Horny Lodger]

Something happened during our match last night about which none of us was sure of the rules:

Whilst in the act of placing the cue ball on the D it spilled out of the player's hand, rolled down the table knocking over a white peg but not touching another ball (the ball did not go down a hole).

Was it a foul?

We decided it was not as the ball had not been played with the cue.

[curtd]

Jan 30, 2014 13:16:19 GMT Horny Lodger said:

Something happened during our match last night about which none of us was sure of the rules:

Whilst in the act of placing the cue ball on the D it spilled out of the player's hand, rolled down the table knocking over a white peg but not touching another ball (the ball did not go down a hole).

Was it a foul?

We decided it was not as the ball had not been played with the cue.

Hi

I may be wrong but it appears Rule 114 would fit this

114) If the balls are disturbed in any way other than in the normal course of play, then the scorer
should replace the balls in what he/she considers to be their original positions and play should
continue. If, in the opinion of the scorer, a ball on the edge of the hole falls due to any
accidental or deliberate table movement by the player, that the ball be replaced and will not
count and the break will end.

The England Captain is absolutely right.

There is, however, on the face of it a slight discrepancy between what AEBBA and SCBBA say on the matter: Sussex Playing Rule 29 only quoting part of the rule, thus:

29. If the balls are disturbed in any way other than the normal course of play then the Scorer should replace the balls in what he considers to be their original positions and play should continue.

SCBBA Playing Rules are supposed to match AEBBA Playing Rules so as we all sing from the same hymn sheet ! However, SCBBA have not been updated for several years (latest issue shown on the website Oct 2010) and there are one or two rule changes passed by AEBBA to catch up on.

[BB Warrior]

Jan 30, 2014 14:24:53 GMT tommo III said:

The England Captain is absolutely right.

There is, however, on the face of it a slight discrepancy between what AEBBA and SCBBA say on the matter: Sussex Playing Rule 29 only quoting part of the rule, thus:

29. If the balls are disturbed in any way other than the normal course of play then the Scorer should replace the balls in what he considers to be their original positions and play should continue.

SCBBA Playing Rules are supposed to match AEBBA Playing Rules so as we all sing from the same hymn sheet ! However, SCBBA have not been updated for several years (latest issue shown on the website Oct 2010) and there are one or two rule changes passed by AEBBA to catch up on.

At the SCBBA AGM last year, it was agreed that SCBBA would adopt the AEBBA Playing Rules with effect from this season. There were various other changes to the SCBBA Competition Rules agreed at the same meeting, none of which are shown on the website yet.

I have requested a copy of the new Rules from the SCBBA Secretary.... they were originally supposed to be available for the start of the Inter League Home & Away Competition.... but I am still waiting to receive them which is why the website has not been changed.

I will remind the Secretary when I see him tonight!

[Horny Lodger]

Thanks for your responses. So to be clear, are you saying it WAS a foul and that any score is lost? The rule, I feel, is slightly ambiguous and simply states that "play should continue."

[BB Warrior]

Jan 30, 2014 16:54:27 GMT Horny Lodger said:

Thanks for your responses. So to be clear, are you saying it WAS a foul and that any score is lost? The rule, I feel, is slightly ambiguous and simply states that "play should continue."

NO foul was committed, play should continue means that the player on the table should continue once the scorer has returned the balls to their original positions.

[Chris_Sav]

Jan 30, 2014 16:54:27 GMT Horny Lodger said:

Thanks for your responses. So to be clear, are you saying it WAS a foul and that any score is lost? The rule, I feel, is slightly ambiguous and simply states that "play should continue."

No it's not a foul shot, everything is replaced and the player continues.

To be a foul shot it has to be an occurrence with a penalty listed under 'Loss of break penalty' or 'Loss of entire score penalty'.

No foul, as no cue contact had been made: a break starts when the cue strikes the cue ball.

This does however raise the question of what would happen if (accidentally or deliberately) the delay had such an impact that it decided the result of a game........we were discussing this very thing on here a few years back:

barbilliards.proboards.com/thread/2180/lost-time-outside-interference

Do we have our first point for discussion at the 2014 AGM ?

[Horny Lodger]

Jan 30, 2014 18:12:11 GMT tommo III said:

No foul, as no cue contact had been made: a break starts when the cue strikes the cue ball.

Great, thanks for clearing that up. This was how Ron Sheridan and I understood the rules and instructed the players to continue accordingly.