Table body dimensions

[jelly]

Hello there, I was considering attempting to acquire a BB table at some point in the future, but the space I have in mind for it is rather awkward to get into. I was wondering if someone would know the exact dimensions of the main parts of the table when fully disassembled (i.e. main table, slate and top), so I can work out whether it will fit or not. Is it possible to take the main body of the table apart? I could measure one in a pub, but I'm not sure to what extent they disassemble. I know the rough dimensions but this would be very tight which is why I'm asking for more specific measurements.

Really appreciate any advice on this!

Hi Jell,

A former Redhill League player here now playing back in Horsham.

The dimensions of the majority of tables (I'm assuming you're buying a Jelkes, SAMS or a Riley) are 6 feet long by 3 feet wide. Add on 6 inches to the length for protusion of the rack at the front.

Ours stands in a conservatory, custom built for the purpose. I took the measurements from the little room at the back of the Victory Inn, which I considered had the absolute minimum space needed for comfortable play and to be able to move around the sides.

The measurements for this are 11 feet long by 9 feet across, window to window. Some of the inside space is taken up by shelving resting on a low brick wall, and heaters on three sides.

On SAMS and Riley tables, the legs are attached to the frame and the top lifts off, whereas on a Jelkes the top remains attached to the frame whilst the legs unscrew for ease of transportation.

Hope this helps,

tommo

[jelly]

Hi tommo, many thanks for the reply. A lot of useful information there.

There actual playing area I have is not in question, I have enough space. The problem is an awkward staircase, I'm trying to work out whether there is enough space to get it up the stairs. It's VERY tight, so that the difference between the size of the top and the table body could make a difference, Where are the measurements 6x3 ft taken from, external size of the top? Because of the overhang the top has over the body the body would be a bit smaller than 6 x 3 ft? If this is the case, it would be really good to know the exact dimensions of the main body of the table? 

Is it possible to dismantle the frame on a sams/riley and transport it in pieces? I know I could get the top on it's own in, the main body of the table including legs would almost certainly not fit, so if there's no way of getting the legs off that would probably limit me to jelkes.

I'm also not sure the Jelkes frame including top would fit, but I assume it's possible to take the top off it's hinges so I'd just be left with the main frame.

Also, Is it possible to remove the ball rack of any of the models as this could also make all the difference!

Thanks again for your help!

Cheers,
Joe

[barbelman]

Joe

Taking the legs off a Sams is a major carpentry job!  

You can take the top off a Jelks but the hinges are internal so you have to open it right up to get at them but it can be done.  Make sure you have enough room upstairs to put it back together though.  The ball rack at the front of a Jelks is held on with just  2 or 4 screws and is easily removed.  

tony

[Chris_Sav]

Ball trap comes off a Jelks quite easily, as do the legs. Jelks will stand on end and if you take the slate out can be manoeuvred quite easily on tight spaces.

You can separate the top from a Jelks body, but again take the slate out before trying to get at the internal hinges, they will be a pig to undo.

[jelly]

Hi Tony and Sav

Thanks for the info, that is all really useful. Definitely sounds like a Jelkes would be much more likely to work.

It's hard to describe the manoeuvre I'm contemplating, it is an awkward staircase leading into an attic conversion of an old house, the main difficulty is sliding it up the first flight of stairs on its side then turning it to stand on its end half way up the staircase while avoiding the corner of the downstairs ceiling... I have the whole thing mapped out precisely on sketchup, if I can find the exact external dimensions of the main body, assuming I removed the top, then I can attempt the manoeuvre on sketchup to check it will fit!

If I end up doing this I will surely post pictures on here etc... it is a pretty crazy thing to try and achieve...

I also need to try and source a half decent Jelkes on ebay for not silly money...

Hi Jell,

I can provide you with this link which gives the full dimensions of a bb table, internal and external:
www.billiardsforum.info/billiard-room/bar-billiards-table-plans.pdf

As regards the practicality of humping a table up a flight of stairs, Sav can probably offer much better advice than I, he collected one once from a social club in Scotland and had to negotiate several (coming downwards though)........My efforts would probably be more like Laurel and Hardy in The Music Box !

[Chris_Sav]

Feb 6, 2015 20:35:01 GMT tommo III said:

Hi Jell,

I can provide you with this link which gives the full dimensions of a bb table, internal and external:
www.billiardsforum.info/billiard-room/bar-billiards-table-plans.pdf

As regards the practicality of humping a table up a flight of stairs, Sav can probably offer much better advice than I, he collected one once from a social club in Scotland and had to negotiate several (coming downwards though)........My efforts would probably be more like Laurel and Hardy in The Music Box !

Don't think those plans are of a full size table.

Yes I've humped a Jelks up a spiral staircase from a dungeon in a Scottish Lairds 'Castle'!! nearly killed me and the other guy.

Normal sized Jelks 1830mm long without ball trap, 950mm widest point of beading, 380mm deepest part of body (250mm without top)

[jelly]

Thanks for the measurements Sav, looks like unfortunately it JUST won't fit. If it was 5cm shorter in either direction it might have had a chance! What do you think about the possibility of dimantling the frame, I know barbelman said it would be a major carpentry job but is it realistically possible? Has anyone had success in taking apart and reassembling without causing a lot of damage?

If that doesn't work I might have to see if I can come up with another location for it, I do have a couple of possibilities but the attic would be just perfect!

Cheers,
Joe

[Chris_Sav]

If it's that critical let me take a more accurate measure of the body. as there is an overlap

The external sizes are basically the sizes of the top which does overlap slightly

Body 1790mm long by 915mm wide with clock and ball tray removed (easy).

At the front it is 270 mm deep, but 20mm could be saved by taking out the internal table base which is only held in by a few screws the base slants up towards the body which is 195mm deep at the halfway point. At the rear are the back leg posts which are 235mm deep and 100mm wide.

I would not recommend any attempt to dismantle the corner blocks on a Jelks unless you know what you are doing.

Sams design does appear to come apart but I cannot advise on that.

With any hand built item there may be slight variations between tables.

  

[jelly]

Thanks sav, that is really useful. It looks like it's going to come down to the last few mm. Here's a picture of what I have to contend with based on those last dimensions you sent:




This is a narrow staircase which then turns 90 degrees to go the final steps up to the attic. If I can get it round this corner so it's standing up on the small "landing" part it will be fine from there, but this is the only conceivable way of it getting up! I know the ceiling looks ridiculously low but this is a very old attic conversion!

I think I need an alternative plan so that if it doesn't go up I've got somewhere else... I don't think I'll get a definitive answer without trying, a bit too late for table purchase decision!! Thanks for your help, much appreciated!
Cheers,
Joe

After all that it looks like it's going to be a case of suck it and see...........

Hope you get better luck than the guys had here:



Better get that kettle on !

[gandalf the untidy]

Feb 7, 2015 15:31:25 GMT jelly said:

Thanks sav, that is really useful. It looks like it's going to come down to the last few mm. Here's a picture of what I have to contend with based on those last dimensions you sent:




This is a narrow staircase which then turns 90 degrees to go the final steps up to the attic. If I can get it round this corner so it's standing up on the small "landing" part it will be fine from there, but this is the only conceivable way of it getting up! I know the ceiling looks ridiculously low but this is a very old attic conversion!

I think I need an alternative plan so that if it doesn't go up I've got somewhere else... I don't think I'll get a definitive answer without trying, a bit too late for table purchase decision!! Thanks for your help, much appreciated!
Cheers,
Joe

Looks like you just need to do some doctoring of the last step, if you cant rotate through 90 degrees, easy to say, might not be a possibilty if pipes or cables are in the way

[jelly]

Yes that might be a possibility, or alternatively hack off a few inches of plaster at the top!

[The Bullet]

Hi Jell,
If you're able check out a Riley table ( my favorite make), just squeezed into the back of my shed and even though it was a bit tight I got the following measurements:

Body, 760mm wide, 1610 long, 255 deep, the tray can not be removed and adds 13mm to the length.

Top, 930 wide, 1800 long, 10 deep.

If you decide on a Riley double check my measurements first.

Regards, Bob

[jelly]

Thanks Bob, that sounds great, would definitely fit if those are the right measurements, can the legs be removed? How come its shorter than the other types of still standard size?

[Chris_Sav]

Sams & Jelks, the top pretty much matches the body as the top is one rigid unit that the cushions and slate fit into.

On a Riley or Burroughs and Watts the complete cushion body comes away from the sides of the slate in four separate pieces (like a snooker table) which allows the body to be smaller.

Had not though of that option, though I prefer B & W to Riley.

[jelly]

Ah great, makes sense, what about removing the legs? I'll be keeping my eyes out for suitable models over the coming months :)

[The Bullet]

Hi Jell,
The legs are easy to take off a Riley, just two screws per leg.

I haven't measured my B&W but I think the body will be too big.

The other option is to have a go at building a table.

A Riley might well turn out to be your best option as I believe they are slightly lighter in construction - so less stress on your attic floor when in situ. And some smart examples come up on eBay from time to time.

[jelly]

Thank you all for your advice, managed to get my hands on a Riley which I managed to get into the attic with no trouble! I will be refurbishing it next month so I'll start a separate thread to document my progress!

Cheers
Joe

[The Bullet]

Pleased to hear the table fitted, good luck on the refurbishment, look forward to hearing how it goes.

Regards
Bob