County Champs 2006 results 24th Sept

[NigelS]

Oxfordshire are the new county champs after winning the title by 5 clear points from Berkshire. Oxon were unbeaten throughout the day. Reigning champs Sussex were 3rd and Kent A survived relegation yet again from newly promoted Northants by 1 point
Unbeaten players on the day were Jon Bamsey, Chris Reeves, Tony Walsh and Chris Lawman. Highest break was made by Mark Brewster with a 12k effort
Div 2 was won by Hampshire, 2 points clear from Cambs. Surrey were 3rd and Bucks avoided the depths of division 3 with a last gasp 6-1 win over Kent B after being 2 points behind them with a match to go. Barry Radford and Pete Doherty were unbeaten in Div 2.

Final Standings

 
Div 1
P	W	L	Score	Pts
Oxon	4	4	0	221,650	20
Berks	4	3	1	155,020	15
Sussex	4	2	2	161,830	14
Kent A	4	1	3	118,010	11
Nthants	4	0	4	93,110	10
					
Div 2			
	P	W	L	Score	Pts
Hants	4	3	1	136,930	18
Cambs	4	3	1	116,880	16
Surrey	4	2	2	144,940	15
Bucks	4	1	3	114,150	12
Kent B	4	1	3	88,960	9

Well done to Oxon and Hampshire

[milko]

Nigel, Steven Sheard won 4/4 as well, he played superbly all day.Well done to Chris Reeves on winning all his games, it's great to see two of the youngest stars of our game doing so well.

[NigelS]

Apologies, Keith. Steven did indeed win 4 from 4 also, well done to him.

[milhouse]

Excellent day yesterday, glad i went to watch.
It was good to see nearly every top Bar Billiard players in one room.
Top performance from Oxfordshire ;D especially Jon and Steven who both played exceptionally well.
It was also good to meet a few people from this forum and put some faces to names :o

[Colemanator]

Nigel needs a mention also for making the day run to time, well we actually ran ahead of schedule, we thought we'd get home quicker, err err, after dropping Damian off we decided to turn towards castle ashby and well after a few more turns ended up on a gated road with cattle grids in the pitch black ::) :-[, no idea where, anyway we eventually got home cold and hungry >:(

Yeh, I know, Colemanator, you had Jason with you and as one of his argonauts were trying to find The Golden Fleece. ;D

Seriously though, echo your comments about Nigel, the tournament ran really smoothly and it was great to get home before half-past-eight for once and earn some Brownie points.
Well done to the organisers !

[NigelS]

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. I was very pleased to finish ahead of schedule, especially as I always forget to factor the raffle in!

[fazza]

If these teams were so happy about finishing early, why couldn't they have stopped another few minutes for the presentations to acknowledge the winning teams.

It amazes me that, as soon as some players have finished their games, they immediately remember that they just "have to go". I really believe this is being slightly rude to the winning teams/players.

Now that bugs me, but I will save that for another thread.......

Apologies, what you say is totally correct, I usually try to stay to the end to applaud the winners etc. Sunday was an exceptional case though, we had our 'Bye' last and had finished half way. And Vernon was on a promise. We're suitably admonished. :-[ :-[ :-[

[Colemanator]

I know what you're saying peter, my 'bug' is getting there to sign in at 11 o clock and then our first game was at 1.15! a wait of 2 and a qtr hours,some of our team waited longer than that, no wonder we'd had enough, surely in this day and age the draw can be done a week in advance so you know what time to get there :(

[NigelS]

chimp said:

I know what you're saying peter, my 'bug' is getting there to sign in at 11 o clock and then our first game was at 1.15! a wait of 2 and a qtr hours,some of our team waited longer than that, no wonder we'd had enough, surely in this day and age the draw can be done a week in advance so you know what time to get there :(

I appreciate what you say, however, doing the draw beforehand has a big drawback in that what if one of the teams doesn't show at the last minute? It would throw the tournament into choas.
The reason why I don't even give the sheets out till about 11.50 is that I wait until all the teams have registered - it is not a good idea to assume every team is going to be there.
It is different in opens where you would just give a bye to the opponent of the player who doesn't show or replace with a reserve, but you can't do that with teams.
I did publish the start times and draw beforehand for the alternative rules, and I regretted it. A quarter of the field did not show so there were many byes in the early rounds extending the day by a couple of hours. Unfortunately the people that suffered were the players that did show up on time, having to wait around for their games.
For county you need to bear in mind that we have 70 people who have just 4 games to play on just 8 tables. This means lengthy time gaps between games is unavoidable.

[Chris_Sav]

Agree with everthing you say Nige, but once again the reliable 90% plus of the bar billiard players are being held to ransom by the few can't be bothered. They are also the ones that normally live within thirty minutes of the venue.

I still say its time we came up with a penalty or deposit scheme on entries. We can do without the ones we would lose and others may attend given that the schedule will be smoother.

Sav.

sav said:

I still say its time we came up with a penalty or deposit scheme on entries.
Sav.

Like in Opens where not everyone makes it but it's accepted that the fee they paid in advance was non-returnable.

It does sound though that Northants got a bit of a raw deal this year, firstly not knowing which division their B team were to end up in until the last minute, and having the two and a half wait must have seemed like adding insult to injury.

Nigel's rulings were no doubt correct in the light of the circumstances he was faced with.

What should have happened, though, to save the Northants B situation was that Kent B should have been given a deadline to enter of, say, a fortnight before the event. If they had not confirmed for definite by then Northants B could have had their place cemented in Div 2. If after that Kent B found that they could still muster a team after all, they could have entered as a new team at the last minute - on the later date, with the organiser having alternative fixtures prepared in advance for three teams or four teams.

Easy being wise after the event, I know, but - that's typical of bar billiards ! ;)

[NigelS]

I agree that 90%+ bar billiards players are reliable and will be there when they say they will. This is why we can draw opens out beforehand and publish times as the percentage of players that do not show is small.

However, the alternative rules, seems to be an exception, where there is a history of a lot of no shows. I would love to do the draw in advance, but last year it just made the day run longer in the end, and I think it would be better to get all of the players present at a set time and then we can all finish earlier rather than all finish later, I think I could have ended the tournament 2 hours earlier last year had the no shows even told me they were not coming. I was annoyed to see vacant tables for the first half of that competition and yes it was the ones that showed that ultimately suffered in the end.

Team events are more difficult to plan this way. Most teams (8 of 10) started at 12pm and the others started at 1.15. With odd number of teams in each division there will be a break for each team, and this is just down to the luck of the draw in the end as to when each team gets their break. So Northants waiting to start could have happened to any team, but it means that they had no breaks during the day afterwards. A draw in advance would not work I think- say a team had a travel breakdown and could not make it at the last minute? If this had happened on Sunday, I could quickly revert to a 5 and 4 team format that I had prepared and get underway on time and optimise the use of the tables (a 5 and 4 team format cuts around 1 and a half hours off the day - it is 28 games or 4 series less than a 5 and 5 team format). If the draw had been done beforehand and a team was arriving an hour later because they already knew they had the first bye, I would be stuck with the original 5 and 5 team format and everyone would finish later in the end. Redoing a draw is particularly dodgy ground I think.

I have said before that Kent B met the deadline for entry, but told me later of problems with assembling their team. I think it is important to remember that Kent B could have kept it quiet and then at the very last minute pulled out, which would have meant there would have been no suggestion of Northants B being in division 2 at all. Therefore I am thankful to Kent B for being honest and telling me that there could be problems at least allowing me to make Northants B aware that there may be a space for them in division 2 after all. Fortunately for Kent B they did get a side and actually had a good chance of avoiding relegation until slipping up in the last game.

All these things considered, I prepared alternative schedules for 10 and 9 teams (regardless of the Kent situation), i also had plans in mind for 8 teams as you just never what will happen on the day. Running tournaments isn't easy and you just try to learn from each one you do - I don't think you can get away with just preparing 1 playing schedule - even though it would be nice to!

[milhouse]

nigels said:

However, the alternative rules, seems to be an exception, where there is a history of a lot of no shows. I would love to do the draw in advance, but last year it just made the day run longer in the end, and I think it would be better to get all of the players present at a set time and then we can all finish earlier rather than all finish later, I think I could have ended the tournament 2 hours earlier last year had the no shows even told me they were not coming. I was annoyed to see vacant tables for the first half of that competition and yes it was the ones that showed that ultimately suffered in the end.

I understand the problems in organising events, but you have to do a draw for any open beforehand. If all players had to register by say 11.30 and the draw is then done, someone like Sav who would have a 2+ hour drive to get there for 11.30, what happens if his first game isn't until 1.30 ? I doubt he would be having to get there 2 hours before his start time considering the time he would have to get up to get there on time.

nigels said:

I have said before that Kent B met the deadline for entry, but told me later of problems with assembling their team. I think it is important to remember that Kent B could have kept it quiet and then at the very last minute pulled out, which would have meant there would have been no suggestion of Northants B being in division 2 at all.

Fair enough, Nigel, but I don't think Northants were aware of that.

As a neutral, it looked to me as if any deadline that may have existed was being extended to a last minute "whim" of entry. ::) No-one seemed to want to be forthcoming to Northants as to what their chances were for two teams on the same day and it was all left up in the air until the very last minute which obviously impinged on their own advance travel arrangements. >:(

I agree that organising such a major national event can be a logistical nightmare and you have defended your decisions - which in the circumstances were correct anyway ! It's just a shame that Northants had the carrot dangled in front of them in the first place, and also a shame that no tears are being shed over their non-appearance at the second event: We should be encouraging teams - as has oft been said before - and I for one hope that they'll be back next year. 8-)

[NigelS]

milhouse said:

I understand the problems in organising events, but you have to do a draw for any open beforehand. If all players had to register by say 11.30 and the draw is then done, someone like Sav who would have a 2+ hour drive to get there for 11.30, what happens if his first game isn't until 1.30 ? I doubt he would be having to get there 2 hours before his start time considering the time he would have to get up to get there on time.

Maybe last year I would have agreed with you Milhouse but after the Alternative Rules last year I will not do the draw in advance for that one. However, because I know Sav and Dave May quite well and they have the furthest to travel I would agree to give them a later start time than others as I know they would ring me if they were or were not coming and I would know that when I am doing the draw they were on their way.

[NigelS]

tommo said:

It's just a shame that Northants had the carrot dangled in front of them in the first place, and also a shame that no tears are being shed over their non-appearance at the second event: We should be encouraging teams - as has oft been said before - and I for one hope that they'll be back next year. 8-)

I did try to make it clear that Northants B were only ever a division 3 side, and they did state that they would not play a division 3 on a seperate day. So i did dangle a carrott to Northants regarding division 2 but that was an attempt to keep them involved if the opportunity did come up which was a very real possiblility. It's a case of being damned if you do and damned if you don't. I was going to lose one team anyway. If I disqualified Kent B I could have been accused if not giving them enough opportunity for them to raise a side, which given time they did. I don't think Kent B would have played in division 3 if I offered to 'swap' Northants B and Kent B

Lets not forget Northants B are still welcome on Oct 8th to play division 3, and I would still accomodate them at this late stage. In a way it is up to them to get promoted to division 2 if they want to play with their A team colleagues next year.

I have a similar problem with the ladies CC as Bucks are not sure whether they have a team yet for Sunday. I feel I have to give them time this week otherwise we risk losing a whole county from the ladies game, which would be a shame in my opinion.

[Chris_Sav]

Just to put the record straight on Kent 'B'. I would like to thank Nigel for his patience and help.

Kent 'B were entered months ago. I as KBBA secretary could have kept quiet about the team problems and hoped we got a 'B' side and then dropped Nigel in it at the last mo.

I as KBBA secretary coordinate in Kent. This last month Bar Billiards has disappeared from my agenda whilst we fight to get my wife the treatment she deserves for suspected cancer and not the three months wait we were given. Fortunately Dave May and Pete Sainsbury managed to fill the void and I thank Nigel for giving us the time to do it and Pete & Dave for diving in during this exceptional and most difficult experience.

The news regarding Gill is better but not definite following an exploratory op yesterday and an MRI last Friday.

Regarding the Alt Rules, the problem is in AEBBA not charging an entry fee in advance for these comps. There ia absolutley no incentive for players to honour their entry.

Chris.

Nothing more can really be said on the subject as I think the record has been put as straight as it possibly could be. And I apologise for rocking the boat. But hopefully you will agree that it is best to air these things rather than let them fester ! :-/

And may I add, Sunday was the most enjoyable event I've been to for a long, long time so well done again. 8-)

sav said:

The news regarding Gill is better but not definite following an exploratory op yesterday and an MRI last Friday.
Chris.

Fingers crossed for continuing good news. MRI scan not pleasant from Margaret's experience, they really squash you painfully and the whole experience is claustrophobic.

[milhouse]

If Northants B are not going to attend on the 8th, can we have an Oxon "C" side ? ;) ;D ;D

[Chris_Sav]

milhouse said:

If Northants B are not going to attend on the 8th, can we have an Oxon "C" side ? ;) ;D ;D

If there's a hole in the schedule, then why not??? I'm sure everyone would rather play than sit around during a bye round.

Sav.

Nigel, cringing, thinks "Oh no, some f*cker's going to recommend a Sussex 'C' side !" :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

[NigelS]

tommo said:

Nigel, cringing, thinks "Oh no, some f*cker's going to recommend a Sussex 'C' side !" :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

Indeed I am Tommo! As I understand it the rule change only allowed B sides, so I don't think we shall see Oxon C or Sussex C just yet :)

[Herr von Puebik]

Does that mean Northants 'D' had better cancel the mini-bus then :-/ ;D

[milhouse]

nigels said:

Indeed I am Tommo! As I understand it the rule change only allowed B sides, so I don't think we shall see Oxon C or Sussex C just yet :)

Oh well, it was worth a try :(

I'm sure you'll get your chance next year, Milhouse, what with the one extra spot caused by the departure of Katie to pastures new.
Meanwhile you can continue to make a name for yourself in the Opens.

Nigel - Do you plan to publish the full transcript of results of the County Championships on a website anywhere, or will we have to wait for BBQ63 from Pete ?

[NigelS]

Tommo - I have all the results and averages available in a spreadsheet.
I can send them out to anyone who wants them by email.
Or Sav, are you able to put them on the AEBBA website?

But just for now here are the full averages (but they aren't easy to read on here)

 
	Div 1								
	Code	Player	County	P	W	L	Brks	Score	Ave
1	B1	Jon Bamsey	Oxon	4	4	0	2	46,560	11,640
2	A3	Chris Reeves	Sussex	4	4	0	2	38,910	9,728
3	B2	Mark Turner	Oxon	4	3	1	2	36,820	9,205
4	B5	Steven Sheard	Oxon	4	4	0	2	34,920	8,730
5	B7	Kevin Tunstall	Oxon	4	3	1	2	33,760	8,440
6	C4	Tony Walsh	Berks	4	4	0	2	33,130	8,283
7	A5	Dave France	Sussex	4	2	2	2	32,260	8,065
8	C5	Paul Sainsbury	Berks	4	3	1	2	31,070	7,768
9	C1	Brnie McCluskey	Berks	4	2	2	2	27,440	6,860
10	D6	Chris Lawman	Nthants	4	4	0	2	27,200	6,800
11	B4	Keith Sheard	Oxon	4	2	2	2	24,970	6,243
12	B3	Dennis Atkins	Oxon	4	3	1	2	24,420	6,105
13	E4	Mark Brewster	Kent A	4	2	2	2	23,400	5,850
14	A1	Richard Wooton	Sussex	4	1	3	2	22,990	5,748
15	A7	Barry Holt	Sussex	4	3	1	2	22,860	5,715
16	E2	Kevin Pringle	Kent A	4	3	1	2	21,370	5,343
17	C7	Terry Vallis	Berks	4	2	2	2	20,790	5,198
18	B6	Pete Farrelly	Oxon	4	1	3	2	20,200	5,050
19	A6	Gareth Lloyd	Sussex	4	2	2	2	19,970	4,993
20	C2	Dave Alder	Berks	4	2	2	2	18,050	4,513
21	C6	Phil Hawkins	Berks	4	2	2	2	17,090	4,273
22	E3	Russll Millford	Kent A	4	2	2	2	16,950	4,238
23	E5	Gerry Fitzjohn	Kent A	4	1	3	2	16,610	4,153
24	A4	Nigel Senior	Sussex	4	1	3	2	15,790	3,948
25	E1	Pete Sainsbury	Kent A	4	1	3	2	15,080	3,770
26	D7	Simon Coleman	Nthants	4	1	3	2	14,080	3,520
27	E6	Vinny Mitchell	Kent A	4	1	3	2	13,380	3,345
28	D1	Matt Thomson	Nthants	4	2	2	2	12,620	3,155
29	D2	Damien Coates	Nthants	4	1	3	2	12,150	3,038
30	E7	Alan Farra	Kent A	4	1	3	2	11,220	2,805
31	D4	Jason Neal	Nthants	4	1	3	2	9,640	2,410
32	D3	Ian Coleman	Nthants	4	1	3	2	9,070	2,268
33	A2	Steve Mariner	Sussex	4	1	3	2	9,050	2,263
34	D5	Roo Hare	Nthants	4	0	4	2	8,350	2,088
35	C3	Adam Cox	Berks	4	0	4	2	7,450	1,863

	Div 2								
	Code	Player	County	P	W	L	Brks	Score	Ave
1	G5	Barry Radford	Hants	4	4	0	2	29,570	5,914
2	F1	Gary Powell	Surrey	4	2	2	2	26,130	5,226
3	G4	Alan Chaloner	Hants	4	3	1	2	25,370	5,074
4	H6	Keith MacDonald	Cambs	4	3	1	2	24,670	4,934
5	F7	Geoff Jukes	Surrey	4	2	2	2	23,810	4,762
6	F5	Clive Thompson	Surrey	4	3	1	2	23,650	4,730
7	H2	Pete Doherty	Cambs	4	4	0	2	22,160	4,432
8	G1	Chris Newson	Hants	4	3	1	2	21,840	4,368
9	F6	Colin Robbins	Surrey	4	3	1	2	21,400	4,280
10	J2	Dino Clark 	Bucks	4	2	2	2	21,300	4,260
11	I7	Dave May	Kent B	4	3	1	2	20,190	4,038
12	F4	Dave Constable	Surrey	4	3	1	2	19,930	3,986
13	F3	Vernon Sparkes	Surrey	4	2	2	2	19,740	3,948
14	G6	Tony Woolvin	Hants	4	3	1	2	19,480	3,896
15	J6	Andy Godden	Bucks	4	1	3	2	19,330	3,866
16	J3	Darren Isard	Bucks	4	2	2	2	18,530	3,706
17	H7	Phil Buckle	Cambs	4	2	2	2	16,990	3,398
18	H1	Morgan Wright	Cambs	4	1	3	2	16,870	3,374
19	I2	Charlie Hallett	Kent B	4	2	2	2	16,570	3,314
20	J1	Maurice Izzard	Bucks	4	2	2	2	15,650	3,130
21	H5	Nicky Elmer	Cambs	4	2	2	2	15,430	3,086
22	J4	Ray Hussey	Bucks	4	2	2	2	14,960	2,992
23	I1	Wayne Wells	Kent B	4	2	2	2	14,790	2,958
24	G7	Dennis Claydon	Hants	4	1	3	2	14,620	2,924
25	J7	Terry Isard	Bucks	4	2	2	2	14,060	2,812
26	G2	Tony Webster	Hants	4	2	2	2	13,250	2,650
27	H3	Julian Dale	Cambs	4	3	1	2	13,240	2,648
28	G3	Fred Large	Hants	4	2	2	2	12,800	2,560
29	I6	Mark Foster	Kent B	4	0	4	2	12,210	2,442
30	J5	Syl Murphy	Bucks	4	1	3	2	10,320	2,064
31	F2	Laurie Roberts	Surrey	4	0	4	2	10,280	2,056
32	I5	Gary Newman	Kent B	4	0	4	2	9,770	1,954
33	I3	Gerry Goodwin	Kent B	4	1	3	2	8,090	1,618
34	H4	Malcolm Wright	Cambs	4	1	3	2	7,520	1,504
35	I4	Dan Newman	Kent B	4	1	3	2	7,340	1,468

[Chris_Sav]

nigels said:

Or Sav, are you able to put them on the AEBBA website?

Email me the spreadsheet, so I can cut 'n paste please Nigel.

Sav.