AEBBA Official Facebook Page

[Coleman Jnr]

We now have an official AEBBA facebook page, with regular posts on news, important information, Photos, videos, live streams, quizzes and much more. Don't forget to follow the page also, so as to not miss any posts. Please interact with posts, and this will make the page more relevant, thus making it appear more frequently on peoples timelines and also will eventually reach a larger audience.

Find the page here:-

www.facebook.com/allenglandbarbilliards/

[Chris_Sav]

What advantage does an official AEBBA Facebook page have over this forum, apart from adding confusion by having information in two places?

The forum has been the hierarchically structured central information point for well over ten years and is carefully moderated to suppress spam and the trolls that armchair bully.

The forum already has "Photos, videos, live streams, quizzes and much more."

It would have been nice for AEBBA to consult with the forum owners prior to this major change, especially before lifting forum owned pictures.  

Agree entirely with Chris. I always understood that this Forum served as the inter-active medium for AEBBA. We should not be inveigled into becoming members of Facebook.

Count me out.

Tommo of the near-30,000 posts.

[NigelS]

I am confused as to why there would be any negativity towards this

Surely we should explore as many avenues relating to social media we can to try and expand the game and reach out to as many people as possible

A facebook page should not been seen as a threat to this forum.There are going to be people who may have an interest in the game who would never find this forum, but may find us on facebook......

As you know Nigel I am completely supportive of the new version of AEBBA website.

It's just that it now has an extra facility which I see as optional. (Facebook not for me, too "cliquey".)

I agree with Sav that having the same (important) stuff in two places is asking for trouble.

[daveuk1]

Isn't there already a British bar billiards page?

[JB]

I too am totally confused

People have been going on for ages about promoting the game in as many ways as possible

Perhaps we should ask Northants who have a website and a Facebook page what problems they have had.

I see what’s going on through their Facebook page not through their website.

People use this forum who don’t use Facebook but there are a lot of people who use Facebook and have never been on here.

Surely it’s just another way to get the message of bar billiards out there

[Coleman Jnr]

This is in no way intended to replace or take away the emphasis of this forum. It was decided by the AEBBA committee as a positive thing to eventually reach out to new players and a great form of advertising. The analytics available and potential for outreach is so low cost and in sometimes free. We already have new people interested in entering tournaments after less than a week of being published.

This is just another platform we are using to speak out to people, and once the AEBBA website is up and running most of the posts will be links to our website thus getting more hits to our website.

Dave yes there is a page ran by Bernie I believe and once again this is in no way to replace that! This is however, to be ran by the AEBBA and eventually used as a tool to promote the game to a wider audience.

As for using a photo from the forum I only did this to keep continuity within our platforms however if it is a problem I will happily change it, however I see that as distancing the forum away from what we are trying to do!

The Forum's Northants board got hi-jacked when they all joined Facebook, bringing to an end all the fun we used to have with Kipling awards, etc.

The danger here is that future discussions will be confined to the clique of players involved at the top level and to hell with the rest of us.

[JB]

Sorry but I’m getting more and more confused with what the problem is

Why should future discussions only be for top players?

What is the problem with trying to reach others through other media?

Some people hate Facebook and will never go on there but I also know people who love Facebook and hate this forum and will never go on here.

Surely all AEBBA are trying to do is to reach more people

My problem is that the first bar billiards people to join Facebook - well some of them, anyway - used it for sniping and backstabbing and some of the Forum Staff were obliged to join, just to discover what was going on.

I'm not saying that this will happen now with the new site, but as Chris has said, Facebook is un-moderated and thus 'vulnerable' to trolling, etc.

If Facebook is for you, then good luck to you - but don't expect everyone to join.

The Forum already offers a welcome to new players and anyone with a passing interest, and has visibility priority for Google searches.

[Oaks]

It’s the 21st certainly people use Facebook and it’s a great way to advertise bar billiards to the masses. This hole trolling thing is rubbish we are all adults and if someone uses a swear word I don’t think people are going to cry about it and there are admins on there and anyone can be blocked. I just think some people don’t want to give up control.

[JB]

Nobody is asking everyone to join Facebook it’s an individuals choice. The same as no-one asks everyone to join this forum.

Facebook I’m sure will be monitored by AEBBA.

I feel sorry for AEBBA after taking so much stick for not doing anything now there getting stick about trying to do something to go forward and reach more people.

I would like to say well done to all involved in trying to do something to promote our game which as everyone knows is gradually reducing in numbers.

[daveuk1]

To be fair Sudbury has a basic web site, but no message facilities so a Facebook page thingy was opened, thats probably why most of our players use the FB page and only look here as visitors. I guess it all depends what the AEBBA Facebook page will be used for. If its for basic chit chat then great, but if it's going to be used to promote or advertise things like opens etc then a great deal of care needs to be taken to ensure information is synchronised with this site and the AEBBA web site to stop confusion and lets face it I am easily confuzzled.

[BB Warrior]

Some interesting points made here by all, clear differences of opinion on the subject but no reason that ALL forms of media can be used to try to promote our game and personally I would applaud AEBBA for doing this.

Having said that, I do feel that it will be very important that all forms of information are made available on ALL of the different forms of media in the future as it is obvious that different people prefer to use different forms of media.... so, anything that goes on the new AEBBA Facebook area must also appear here on the forum as well. There is no point in trying to expand interest in the game in new areas if you then cut back in areas that are already successful.

Good luck to those at AEBBA in getting the word out to more people, hope it proves to be a great success.

[Coleman Jnr]

Just for the record, everything that is posted on the AEBBA Facebook page must be authorised before being published so no one can bad mouth anyone. It's being used as a means of communicating with the outside world. It is also being used merely as a "push notification" when things are updated on the website so people don't have to check it every 5 mins for updates.

Also it's a way of building a brand because whether we like it or not, our game is in decline and we can be stuck in our ways and watch it collapse or move forward with the modern era and do something about it.

It can be used to establish connections with other brands and create sponsorship giving value to people's money, it can connect to a world of people who aren't necessarily searching for "bar billiards" but would still be interested in playing and lastly we are always trying to find a new generation of players to keep the game going, can bet you they all have Facebook!

[barbelman]

Personally I applaud the efforts of the AE committee with their Facebook effort and have 'followed' it but the fact remains that the Forum is the officially appointed organ of the AEBBA and it would have been courteous to delineate what each medium does best and act on it, and this should have involved a small amount of consultation with the officers and moderators of this Forum.  We give our time freely but not if it is duplicated, and thus wasted, effort.  Take the existence of the Forum for granted at your own peril.

Tony

[Chris_Sav]

Jan 23, 2018 12:15:51 GMT barbelman said:

Personally I applaud the efforts of the AE committee with their Facebook effort and have 'followed' it but the fact remains that the Forum is the officially appointed organ of the AEBBA and it would have been courteous to delineate what each medium does best and act on it, and this should have involved a small amount of consultation with the officers and moderators of this Forum.  We give our time freely but not if it is duplicated, and thus wasted, effort.  Take the existence of the Forum for granted at your own peril.

Tony

That eloquently put reply comes  on behalf of both owners of the forum

[mikedaw1985]

I think using facebook is a good idea. Of course the information being put up will need thinking about. Perhaps a link to the forum on posts might be an idea for further info? Promoting opens etc on there is a good idea as sometimes I go for days not looking at the forum but I do have a glance on facebook and quite often see bits and pieces posted from say the northants league that i would not have seen otherwise. Hastings at one stage was using twitter along with a web site. I have never used twitter but it did not bother me as I could always find out info relevant to me if I really wanted to. Plus you dont actually have to be a member to find things about Hastings bar billiards on there, just a google search. Not sure if its quite the same for facebook? I think it depends on what privacy settings have been setup.

The game is slowly but surely meeting its demise and we need to try something to stop this. Lets give it a go and see what happens. We need to make the game visible to as many people who are either playing or more importantly not playing. Maybe some of those not playing will see the post and ask their friends what its all about and want to give it a go.

[Coleman Jnr]

I think there may be some confusion as to the reasons behind the Facebook group. The idea was to never replace the forum and as was said before it's mostly being used to promote the game to a wider audience, help build the brand of the AEBBA, used to notify people of updates and eventually give potential sponsors value for money!

This wasn't something that I have just decided to make bored one day, this is a tool the AEBBA committee discussed and agreed on.

This forum has and will probably always be (along side the website) the backbone or bar billiards with regards to information, and there is no intention of transferring that information into facebook. I have the upmost respect for the moderators who work endlessly to keep this forum running, however it is a closed audience and unless we find new players the numbers on here will continue to dwindle. If anything the group is designed to get more people playing and then there will be more people to read the forum.

Ps
Can whoever owns the banner picture just confirm whether I have permission to use it and keep some continuity or if they would like me to change it?

[Chris_Sav]

Have talked to Tony and thought about the future overnight.

Tony and I are 'old school' in our values and outlook and with his and others help I have run and developed this forum for the past eleven years.

Neither of us are now in particularly good health and I consider that the best way forward is for the 'new' AEBBA to be in sole control of their brand name and not to have  the forum as a separate entity. The best way forward is thus for AEBBA to take over the forum and have all publicity centrally controlled.

Thoughts on this?

[barbelman]

Jan 24, 2018 9:55:43 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Have talked to Tony and thought about the future overnight.

Tony and I are 'old school' in our values and outlook and with his and others help I have run and developed this forum for the past eleven years.

Neither of us are now in particularly good health and I consider that the best way forward is for the 'new' AEBBA to be in sole control of their brand name and not to have  the forum as a separate entity. The best way forward is thus for AEBBA to take over the forum and have all publicity centrally controlled.

Thoughts on this?

I fully endorse Chris's statement and will always go with what the majority want.  I too would like to hear opinions from a WIDE cross-section of our membership at grass roots level please.

Tony

I'll go first, and please accept that I more often than not try to take the middle ground (seeing merit - or demerit ! - in both viewpoints).

1. Much thought and effort has gone into the new AEBBA Facebook facility (sorry if I did not come across as appreciative of this before) and well
done to Stephen and to the supportive Lorin. The attempt to reach out to others and spread the message is a noble cause and can only be a good
thing if it succeeds in attracting new members from hitherto barren areas.

2. Chris is probably right that this is the way forward for the future, but also that out of courtesy the new facility should have been run past the Forum hierarchy - making plain its aspirations - so that it did not come as such a shock when it happened.

3. Can the two exist together in harmony with the undoubted overlaps ? I think eventually probably not. Time moves on.

4. Mention has been made of the Forum being a 'closed audience' but I do not consider this to be the case. Forum access is not "Members Only" as
once recommended, its own stats bear witness to eight times as many guest visitors as members......
Quote:

Users Online in the Last 24 Hours: 6 Staff, 52 Members, 411 Guests.

This is suggestive of people looking in for information only and not wishing to have any input let alone get involved in any discussion. There are many such people in my neck of the woods, I often offer them the jibe that they are 'lurkers'.

5. The Forum, which I have known and loved for 12 years, is now a victim of its own success, being a vehicle for rapid communication, and also
a dump for information which would be better placed on League or County websites. People do a quick visit to check their next match coming up,
or how their team is doing, or averages or ranking points.

6. The AEBBA must therefore accept that there is likely to be an equivalent number of 'lurkers'. I visit many sites with a Facebook entry template
(eg and I can usually access whatever info I want without actually joining (I just click on Not Now). I imagine that AEBBA
will work the same way.

7. Finally, I take my hat of to Chris, Tony and those who help them to run the Forum. I could list many examples of achievements which have been
made for the good of the game, which wouldn't have been possible without its existence, many of which the 'newer' players wouldn't be aware of.
Good luck to the AEBBA as after so many years of inertia they finally pick up and run with the baton.

tommo

Jan 24, 2018 10:29:05 GMT barbelman said:

Jan 24, 2018 9:55:43 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Have talked to Tony and thought about the future overnight.

Tony and I are 'old school' in our values and outlook and with his and others help I have run and developed this forum for the past eleven years.

Neither of us are now in particularly good health and I consider that the best way forward is for the 'new' AEBBA to be in sole control of their brand name and not to have  the forum as a separate entity. The best way forward is thus for AEBBA to take over the forum and have all publicity centrally controlled.

Thoughts on this?

I fully endorse Chris's statement and will always go with what the majority want.  I too would like to hear opinions from a WIDE cross-section of our membership at grass roots level please.

Tony

Hi there,

If I may make one or two comments it could perhaps assist with clarifying the overall direction of travel for the AEBBA.

It is important to state from the outset that the AEBBA committee fully recognise that we are all just temporary custodians of the game and we therefore consider it vital that we do all we can to ensure that the game is in a healthier state when we pass on the reins than when we took on our respective roles. Everything that will happen in the next 24 - 36 months will be consistent with that aim. That said, it is not a 'new AEBBA' merely there will be some new initiatives.

The second important clarification is that all of our efforts to 'modernise' what and how we communicate with the outside world centres around increasing our reach. Now, our traditional game comes with many benefits such as the etiquette and sportsmanship that is engendered by our playing community. Or our attention to detail in maintaining high quality playing standards. Or our approach to encouraging entire families to participate. It comes with one or two drawbacks too - such as a resistance to change or the tensions that a small community and over familiarity can bring. As we look to increase our reach, we want to engage on multiple levels and on multiple platforms. Generally speaking they can be broken down as follows:

• AEBBA Website - this will be the main 'corporate' communication platform for the AEBBA. It will perform a number of functions ranging from game promotion, elevating the profile of the game and the players, driving revenue from sponsorship and increasing the value of the table hire business, automated and easy competition entry and payment - and probably some other things too
• Social Media - this will be to provide immediate, regular and disruptive communication of Bar Billiards information. The main purpose is to increase engagement, elevate the profile of the game in the consciousness of non-players and to drive traffic to other sources (such as the website or this forum)
• Proboards Forum - this should continue to be the main platform for detailed bar billiards discussion. For facilitating those leagues and counties who choose to communicate through it and for maintaining the community

[/i] easy to find here. We need only to look at the most recent posts on the Oxford board to see how potentially off-putting that may be to a new player or potential sponsor. The purpose of this forum is to encourage lively debate and so it is not my view that these posts should be moderated out - but merely they don't offer the most welcoming voice.

Through his most recent and a previous post Chris raises the important point of ownership. This too is vital. The long term success of the AEBBA depends on having ownership and the ability to control its messaging as well as eliminating the risk of failure of continuity when people opt not to continue. Look at the challenges that were faced when the official website ceased and then was resurrected. We cannot be exposed to that in the future. As such, having some ownership of the site and of the SM platforms is a very basic but essential requirement.

Finally, it is my view that nothing at all should change about this forum - it does a tremendous amount for the existing Bar Billiards community who choose to use it. But that is not everyone and it is important that the AEBBA find a way of communicating with everyone.

Chris, Tony, Clive - I would be delighted to have a call with you so that you can share your concerns with me and I can seek to address them where I can. Is this something we can arrange?

Very best wishes,

Lorin

[Chris]

Dear All

I have read all of the posts and I was part of the discussion re the AEBBA Committee and uphold the Facebook page totally even though I do not and won't have an account there.

In being part of that discussion, I never thought to tease out questions, that would lead me to ask about liaison with this forum - I will carefully think in future. My total thought in hindsight, as we were openly given the chance to raise any questions throughout the committee meeting.

I too am old school. I applaud what Stephen has done and know it is totally locked out to comments being published on it. All shown is through him only I believe, as in he only updates it.

This forum is still needed and should remain as it is, it is a place to converse publicly whilst being moderated.

I do though worry about the family feel of the game, especially if this forum was to change. it may not have that human touch that I feel is OUTSTANDING. In the same way I feel the Facebook page will have that Business and Publicity touch that will be OUTSTANDING in the future.

Chris x

Well Lorin, first of all I think you have to count me out of any high-level discussions involving the Forum Directors as I resigned my commission
back in August 2012.

Secondly, it seems an opportune moment for the youth element to step up to the plate. I have plans not to be playing in two years' time (will be
returning to competitive Chess) and am not sure that I subscribe to the concept of disruptive engagement! (Not being familiar with the latest
soundbites having taken an early retirement I had to look that one up and found this):


What I can offer is to continue to support the AEBBA website with the input of static data - Nigel knows he can always call on me to help with
his workload should it become unmanageable.

Regards,
tommo

Hi Tommo,

Thanks for your response. I tend to view it as having some fresh eyes look at the challenges that have not really changed much in the last twenty years. Maybe, just maybe, new eyes (coupled with new opportunities to engage with people) will find something that works.

The important point with the social media options is that they can be quick, short and regular touchpoints that keep Bar Billiards much higher in the consciousness of the recipients. Like it or not, people do use platforms like Facebook - and despite the many potential pitfalls - they do have some merits. If carefully considered, we can utilise the benefits and minimise our exposure to any of the pitfalls.

As for the statistical information you provide - that will continue to be an essential element of the website. Nigel will still be feverishly keeping this up to date and adding to what is a comprehensive record of performances at national and regional events.

Thanks,

Lorin

Thanks Lorin,

Feel free to add links to my Timeline of past events:

Standing by to link all of Nigel's Newsletters when he has put 'em all up - so far links work to the 2017 six only.

Jan 25, 2018 17:23:45 GMT tommo III said:

Thanks Lorin,

Feel free to add links to my Timeline of past events:
docs.google.com/document/d/12AUre70nyZRXURC4puhMUp-M5SKm6Zb4eMXxTsCPhnE/pub
docs.google.com/document/d/1O1IaMoSGD3SICM6-_THD12K59H3pxt111hiSm8myD-c/pub
docs.google.com/document/d/1aufdTzNPNh2XQK4ddWBDw8SlD3g2Ind6vKS7oZHGo7s/pub

Standing by to link all of Nigel's Newsletters when he has put 'em all up - so far links work to the 2017 six only.

No problem.

Out of interest, why have you opted to use another repository for this information (i.e. Google) rather than have them on the Forum or on the Website. I know that you wanted to limit the risk of confusion and that was one of your concerns about the use of Facebook. There are plenty of opportunities to put this vast array of important historical information to much wider use.

Let me know if you’d like to talk about it.

Lorin

Glad you asked !

The task emanated from a request on this Forum whilst the AEBBA website was in its former guise.
Following a prompt from the Chubbster, they were looking for volunteers to help raise the profile of the game, put the message out there, etc. This was my contribution.

I used Google Drive as it was convenient and reliable. At the time I was having similar problems to others with my own website design facilities ("Frontpage") and stumbled on Google as a solution to host pages showing 50 years of league records: about 200 pages in all across 3 websites.

I agree that the current place for Timeline is not ideal, but the plan was always for the information to be absorbed within the AEBBA platform, which never happened.

Having put the effort in, it is now the simplest of tasks to update following a major event on the BB calendar.