Scoring Question- How to record fouls?

[vjmehra]

I have been creating a score card / database, which captures a whole host of completely unnecessary stats :-)

I'm unsure of the best way to handle foul scenarios, so does anyone have any opinion on how to handle the following 2 scenarios?

Scenario 1:

A player commits a 'game foul' (i.e. they hit a mushroom and lose all their points for the game), but in an earlier break hit what would have been the high break of the tournament.

Does this still count as a high break for the tournament (even though the points obviously don't count towards the game)?

Scenario 2 (pretty irrelevant, just curious how people would store the stats):

A player commits a foul and so loses the points from that break...but as my scorecard automatically updates it has recorded all the shots.

The points obviously need to be deleted, but as I display a shot count, is there a convention on whether the shots in the break should be included?

So for example:

Break 1: 10 shots, 500 points

Break 2: 10 shots, 500 points then a foul

The score is of course 500, but would I record the shot count as 10 or 20 (doesn't matter of course, but I have an average score field displayed so the way I calculate this would change).


Appreciate there may not be any conventions, so if anyone has any opinions (in particular for the 1st scenario) it would be great to hear! 

[BigPhilMac]

With regards to scenario 1 I would imagine that because the points for the game have been lost overall, the break to get said points would become obsolete at that point. I can't think of such an example in the history of the game but I dare say some anorak out there would have such information to hand ;)

As for scenario 2 I would say it would be at your discretion to record the amount of shots if you so desire. I'd find that way too much work for my bone idle self to be honest!

[vjmehra]

Scenario 2 doesn't really matter as such, but as its a computerised scorecard its no more or less hassle either way, I just need to choose one or the other.

Scenario 1 is the one where I can see an argument either way!

[Chris_Sav]

Apr 8, 2018 22:37:12 GMT BigPhilMac said:

I can't think of such an example in the history of the game but I dare say some anorak out there would have such information to hand ;)

Good way to deter anyone with such information from answering the request and posting

[Chris]

HI

I agree with Sav and I object to the word 'anorak' as implied, as mine is a lovely Norwegian one, white by the way, imported from Norway, well travelled seen many parts of the world and my 'anorak' has lovely sights and memories of many places. My 'anorak' has culture ingrained in it.

I am though a curious type -

RE 1
If a break of say 8k is made in a game then it is a break and is recorded, if then the black peg is knocked over and you lose your score, the break still stands in my personal opinion but my answer would be raise it as part of your leagues rules and raise it as a proposal if you wish. We had that in our league as it happened and the break stands.

Re 2
A little bit confused but if I have read it right and then the number of shots counts towards an aggregate of some sort re final score, then again I would raise it with your league. Personally and only personally I would object to any aggregate over a game by shots.

Many thanks
Chris

[barbelman]

Point one is an interesting question and I can’t believe it hasn’t arisen more often. Personally I would disagree with Chrissie and say the break doesn’t stand as it has been negated by the foul....but I wouldn’t argue too strongly....

Point two is fairly irrelevant to the game but if the stats were available why not store and display them as long as the important info is prioritised.

i too have an anorak (Cotton Traders finest rabbit) but I only get it out when necessary......

Tony

Ok, here's an analogy for you, it hasn't yet happened to my knowledge but in this day and age I wouldn't deny that it couldn't in the future !

Player A (has to be in an Open final) kicks off with 10k, B misses and A gets another 10k to build a 20k 1st leg lead;
Player B gets exactly 20k break (highest of the day) and needs 100 with the last ball to win, which he misses. But break held.

Player A misses, and player B decides to go for the 200 instead but topples the BP.

Having lost the match, should player B then also have the highest break award denied to him ?


In my league (Horsham) our rule did say "highest break is subject to retaining the score at the end of the game". Three years ago we changed this at our AGM, those present considering the forfeiting of an award in such circumstances a bit harsh.


Double anorak, by the way.....have a puffa jacket inscribed "Phat Bastard", and also (like Tony) one made out of animal fur, I think it's known as a 'donkey jacket'.

[Chris]

Hi Clive

I think it must be up to each league re rules. Should though also be one for AEBBA to consider re their events and how this covers Open events ??? as they play under AEBBA rules, except Portsmouth but we have different rules re the black and this anyway.

Love the 'Phat' ******* name x

[vjmehra]

Thanks for the advice all, its an interesting debate, I can build in an option I guess, so there is a setting in the scorer which saves the break if the option is set to yes!

[Chris]

It sounds very interesting - but again I must add you need to ensure the rules of your own league/association for this if it is to be used as part of said league in sorting Highest Breaks and Aggregates.

If just for fun - enjoy what you have developed !!

Thanks Chris

[Coleman Jnr]

In my opinion going back to Clive’s point of if a player scores a “highest break” but then later in the game (after it is recorded and put up on the scoreboard) loses it, I’m my opinion the break should still count because it’s not fair to lose it in a completely unrelated shot later in the game.

It’s surely the highest break “banked” if however the break is lost so for instance they score 20k but Pin it then it hasn’t be banked thus doesn’t count!

Think it was the right decision to change it Tommo 👍🏻
My opinion only 😊

[vjmehra]

Apr 9, 2018 20:53:51 GMT Chris said:

It sounds very interesting - but again I must add you need to ensure the rules of your own league/association for this if it is to be used as part of said league in sorting Highest Breaks and Aggregates.

If just for fun - enjoy what you have developed !!

Thanks Chris

Its not for a league, just for keeping track of when a few friends and I play, nothing too serious, but just wanted to make sure the logic was sound :-)

[BigPhilMac]

Apr 9, 2018 9:11:08 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Apr 8, 2018 22:37:12 GMT BigPhilMac said:

I can't think of such an example in the history of the game but I dare say some anorak out there would have such information to hand ;)

Good way to deter anyone with such information from answering the request and posting

To be fair it wasn't meant to be derogatory! I meant it in a light hearted banter way!

[jelly]

Also think that any legally banked break should stand, regardless of hitting the black later. The break was achieved after all.

[Chris_Sav]

Have to say I bat the other way on this one 


My opinion is that the black peg loses all of your achievements, interesting scenario though.


Shot count is not taken into consideration in matches

[jelly]

Seems unfair in the case that Clive mentioned. Although I'm not sure why he has restricted it to an Open final. What about if someone manages to achieve the highest break so far of the tournament in an earlier round, banks the break but then ends up needing the 200 to win their double leg game. They might even choose to play for the 100 and be knocked out in order to make sure their break stands! Unlikely I know, but they should not be discouraged from trying to win the match by the threat of losing their previously banked break

Yes Jell,
My offering was only one of a number of possible scenarios. And yours is another, well versed.

Good to meet you for the first time last weekend for the Surrey competitions, and well done on your achievement: Open quarter-finalists is very impressive for one who has not been playing that long.

[daveuk1]

I know us four pinners don't count, but once a break is put up on the score board and not disputed by anyone it counts and is recorded. If in F1 a driver records the fastest lap in a race and then crashes out later does his fastest lap still count or is it wiped out because he failed to finish?