Crawley & Dist 4-Pin League (Yr 4)

I am thinking of resurrecting the Crawley & District 4-Pin League along its original lines.
The most recent Government announcement allows Pool/Bar Billiards to be played in pubs so long as hygiene requirements are strictly observed, and a gathering of no more than 6 people, not necessarily from the same family (see this posted today by Sav).
Quote:

A reply from Department of Culture, media and Sport on the changed 'rule of six' guidelines.
TO2020-18715.pdf (206.62 KB)

Playing 3-a-side (with the players going round twice) would be in compliance with the above.
I have in mind 4 participating teams, with all playing all 4 times as a format (see attached draft fixture list).

Renaissance fixtures Yr 1.docx (34.88 KB)

This could start as early as next month, and take us up to when the 3-Pin leagues are able to start up again with a full complement of players.

If anyone reading this would like to come aboard and be one of the four, please let me know: providing you are keen and your venue is a pub (not club) within the Horsham/Mid Sussex catchment area you will be considered ! Please note that none of those mentioned on the Draft Fixture list have been sounded out at this stage, but no doubt they will be approached in order of suitability.

In the event that lockdown has not been eased by the new year, delaying the start of the normal leagues, the programme of fixtures could be extended if required with another round or rounds added.

Though not affiliated to SCBBA as such, this could offer the ideal opportunity to trial their guidelines on Covid-19 which are being worked on at present.

Following on to the previous post, if anyone from the coast suffering withdrawal symptoms and anxious to get back in the saddle has spotted this, I do not mind a bit of plagiarism.....
A suggestion might be to similarly resurrect the Portslade League, using the extra pin or not as the case may be - or even having a 3-a-side "Off-the-Spot".

As those who played in the 4-Pin league before will remember, the programme traditionally ended with an Interleague challenge. We could do this again, 6-a-side. Either as normal if by then gathering restrictions have been lifted - or by means of a prior draw, with the first two sets of 3 players vanishing at half-time with the next 2 sets of three arriving to take over.

[JB]

have moved this here as it seems the post has been moved so doesn't make sense on the original thread

Hi Clive couple of questions

In the draft it says substitutes will be allowed for second round of matches. Does this mean (as things stand) that the substitute would have to arrive after the person they are replacing has left to keep to the maximum of 6?
(Although SCBBA are still discussing the guidelines, and will be publishing them soon I am not sure this would be allowed as one of the points is that you should only play against one opponent) but obviously they are only SCBBA guidelines

Never having played 4 pin can you confirm that no extra markings are made on the cloth or spots on table moved.

From a personal point of view I feel that as a Committee member of SCBBA that trying to resurrect the Portslade league is not feasible. I feel the committee are working hard enough to try and keep our current leagues going and trying to find ways to do this with working out various options. As I said this is a personal opinion and have not spoken to other committee members about this.

Hi Jean,

Right, easy one first. The spots. You should be able to get a set of spots of different colours and sizes from an art shop or pound shop. Choose the next size up and either orange or yellow and place them in front of the 50's and 100 at the distance specified in Sudbury's rules, and also one half-way between the D and the 200 for the break shot.

You needn't touch the ordinary ones and soon learn to ignore them when playing 4-Pin. And providing you use a light touch when pressing the coloured ones in place they shouldn't damage the cloth.

You make a good point about bringing on a sub. Yes as it stands the replaced player would have to leave in advance of the sub arriving. Up to Captain to sort the logistics, and I would imagfine most would want to run with just 3 players - although sometimes an 'emergency' can arise.

The way we ran the league when it was a Summer League was ideal as regards playing the same opponent twice in the evening.  But introducing a different player for the second leg would not break the Covid rules as they stand as there is now no household restriction on "the six."

Finally the Portslade suggestion was not meant to involve the SCBBA in any extra organisational work: really I thought someone like 'Silent' would be jumping on the idea as a means of resurrecting his Summer Off-the-Spot league in winter.......  No doubt with only 3 players per team more than four teams would apply - in which case it could be expanded to 8 teams in 2 divisions using the same fixtures.

Our first foray into 4-Pin is well documented here:

docs.google.com/document/d/130QHugGHJ6BOZ4Bcgigubxjd5zctimQ6Y0ZG1RqC0Wc/pub

Regards,

Clive

Sept 11, 2020 21:39:30 GMT tommo III said:

Hi Jean,

You make a good point about bringing on a sub. Yes as it stands the replaced player would have to leave in advance of the sub arriving. Up to Captain to sort the logistics, and I would imagfine most would want to run with just 3 players - although sometimes an 'emergency' can arise.

The way we ran the league when it was a Summer League was ideal as regards playing the same opponent twice in the evening.  But introducing a different player for the second leg would not break the Covid rules as they stand as there is now no household restriction on "the six."

Clive

Visited the Windmill this lunchtime and ran the plans past the landlady. She is happy to be one of the hosting teams, especially as the local Pool Leagues have decided to cancel until next year.

She also gave her angle on the 'substitutes' aspect, and said that so long as no more than six players are in the vicinity of the table at any one time there will not be a problem: in other words the visitors can arrive with six players if they so wish, but three will have to remain apart from the others (within the bar but seated on a separate table). But as spectators they would have to be seated, not permitted to stand.

Gave her a copy of Sav's clarification letter from the Government, a document of great use to the cause ........

[JB]

Bit confused here

So if a team arrived with 6 players 3 would have to be seated separately as spectators. So surely they couldn’t be used as substitutes?

Course they could !

I'm expecting a team from Eastbourne/Colin Southouse as there's a lot of interest out that way and I really miss those guys !

Say the first 3 legs were Colin, Phil O, Mike Daw - they may then want Chris Haynes, Gareth Dell and Peter Payne to take over for the last three.

They'd simply swap over where they're sitting and re-unite at the end of the evening for the journey home.

[JB]

Think might have agree to disagree on this. If this is the case bar billiards could get back to normal as long as pub can adhere to social distancing.10 players sitting on separate tables and just swapping seats when they are going to play.

Still think a team of 6 and a team of 3 would be classed as a group of 9 if all are playing however seated

Sept 12, 2020 20:08:09 GMT JB said:

Think might have agree to disagree on this. If this is the case bar billiards could get back to normal as long as pub can adhere to social distancing.10 players sitting on separate tables and just swapping seats when they are going to play.

Still think a team of 6 and a team of 3 would be classed as a group of 9 if all are playing however seated

We are going to trial it anyway as our landlady as convinced it will work out as we have planned.

I do agree though that taking it to the extreme and trying to play normal league matches 5 v 5 is a step too far: pandemonium as players from two 'bubbles' try not to brush past or converse with each other.

In practise it will probably be teams of 3 only anyway (although there will be no limit on registration). 3 seated (4,5,6 in diag.), 2 playing (1&2), 1 scoring (3 in diag.)

Ours will be a 'fun' league, no prima donnas or bruised egos, and the main purpose is to keep interest going for the sake of the pubs. 

[bigtj]

remember you also have to consider transportation as there can be a problem theree with car sharing

Ok, here's the plan:

The Crawley & Dist 4-Pin League is invitational and is limited to 4 teams, first come first served.

The Windmill will have a team and there is an open invitation to Gandalf, who has supported our venture in the past, to form a team.

I will be visiting the Inn On The Green on Wednesday, and the Stout House Thursday lunchtime.

In the meantime, is anyone else who can meet the criteria interested ? If you have the players but not the venue you will welcome to play from the Windmill as a second team - providing a vacancy still exists after Thursday.

The format will be finalised next weekend and the Fixture List distributed along with advice concerning Covid-19 measures....To quote Govt Ministerial advice "you may play (bar billiards) ... (sic) at the discretion and direction of the venue staff, with strict control measures in place to maintain the highest level of cleanliness" .

The League will commence on Wed 7th Oct - first game 8pm start.

Member teams

Windmill Crawley

Blacksmiths ? (Gandalf)

Inn On The Green

Stout House

Some developments........

I visited the two venues (Inn on the Green on Wed and Stout House on Thurs).

Both had tables in prominence and conditions seemed conducive to b-b play - especially regarding sanitisation measures.

Inn On The Green table has been treated with Zoono Z71 anti-microbial coating by www.deepcleandevils.com which claims to give up to 30 days protection from Covid.

Margo and I had a warm welcome from Lauren and were able to have a couple of games on the table which is dead level and SUPERB.

Having considered the comments about numbers of players permitted on the night, I have now seen sense and will say "no substitutes allowed on the night". So teams will be limited to a strict 3-a-side (although the players can vary from week to week).

There is also the threat of a restriction on pub licencing hours and a potential week or 2 weeks' lockdown for school half-term: with this in mind I will remove the last Wed in Oct from the fixture list, although it may mean we have to start a week earlier. If a 10pm close is ordered, this will not affect us so long as matches are underway promptly at 8pm. Should a 9pm curfew be imposed at any time, we'll just play the three frames and leave it at that.

Now just awaiting confirmation from the suggested captains that they actually want to play !

tommo

[daveuk1]

Clive, please dont get my wrong, I admire your attemps to get bar billiards going again but be careful. I have heard of Zoono Z71, towards the end of last month they were forced by trading standards to withdraw their claims that it was effective against covid-19 for upto 30 days so don't rely on the product.

It can only come down to personal hygiene, when you are close together playing bar billiards I don't believe there is any proof that wearing a disposable paper mask will help, I guess it can't do much harm though. It will all come down to your covid-19 risk assessment, sanitizing your hands after you finish your break is a must, putting a ball up for your opponent after your break finishes makes no difference, chances you have touched every ball anyway, so its just dont touch your face with your hands, infact keep the contact between your hands and anything else to a minimum until you have washed them, use hand sanitizer between breaks, dont eat crips etc during your game, I know in 3 pin that can be tempting as breaks can go on for some time.

I wish you well tommo but be careful, it could all be pointless though as we are heading for another lockdown and pubs will get the blame

Good luck mate

Dave

[daveuk1]

Just a thought, to make things really safe you could ask every player to clean the cue ball the Alex Higgins way, first lick the ball with your tongue and then wipe it with the hankie from your pocket

Yeah, thanks Dave -

Good advice that I'll take from an NHS employee.

Basically we are following the directive from the Dept for Digital Culture Media and Sport

.....which delegates responsibility to venue staff  "with strict control measures in place to maintain the highest level of cleanliness".

The venues I have sought have such measures in place and are fully acquainted with the government publications. Have sanitising gel, one-way systems, register for visitors, enforce distancing, and will enforce the no-more-than-6-persons bubble and require that persons are sitting down etc.

The rest is up to individuals to be "clean beans" - captains to disinfect tables and accessories: Sussex County Bar Billiards Association have come up with a 2-page set of guidelines and we will be following those. They mention stuff like not picking a ball out for opponent, scorer not touching peg, use of own cues etc, but stopped short of not buying the opponent a drink !     So at the moment everything is in hand.  I even have a stock of masks and gloves if people want to go to the extreme !

But as you say, something might happen to put the kibosh on things. All I am trying to do is support landlords in my own limited way, whilst working within the rules laid down.

tommo

** Crawley 4-Pin League return shot down before take-off **

Main reason:

(Faux news or not): "The Covid threat level has been RAISED from three to four, meaning the virus is running amok across the country, signalling six months of further misery".

Also:

• Phil O was going to come back to me about an 'oriental team' - he hasn't so far;
• A message was left behind the Stout House bar last Thursday for Sammy to phone me - no response;
  
• Dillon had expressed reservations about one of the other venues and it seemed to me was playing hard to get.
  

So apologies to anyone who was looking forward to playing, but plans have been put on hold yet again for the foreseeable future.

Margo and I will be using the 'home' nights on the draft fixture list as a practice night at the Windmill......anyone who wishes to join us is welcome (no more than 4 !!!!)

The 'away' nights we will probably use to go out to dinner (somewhere nice, not necessarily with bar billiards).

Stay safe, everyone !

[iang]

A shame Clive, you had put a lot of effort to try & get this working. But you have the format sorted for whenever it's possible to put it in action.

Cheers Ian,

I might try again after Christmas depending on how things pan out: something to tide us over before the 3-Pin leagues get up and running again.

Clive

[Chris_Sav]

Appears you would now need to wear a face mask to play under the latest restrictions from yesterday.

I was surprised, when out for my weekly beer last evening, that I was even asked to wear a face mask when going to the bog as they told me you must now wear a face mask whenever not seated in a pub (they were correct, covid info section updated).

Sept 25, 2020 11:13:27 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Appears you would now need to wear a face mask to play under the latest restrictions from yesterday. I was surprised when out for my weekly beer last evening that I was even asked to wear a face mask when going to the bog as you must wear a face mask whenever not seated in a pub.

Correct, that came in from yesterday, along with table service only for beers.

Having to be seated all the time is a trial for anyone suffering from Farmer Giles !!!

Visited our local on Wednesday and gave the table a good clean (balls, leatherette, channels, lights, lid).

Pegs taken home to clean and sand down: For time being these have been replaced with a set of mushrooms.

Windmill now a 4-Pin table !

Good 4-Pin session at the Windmill last night ...... Johnny Haigh had his first go at this version and has taken to it like a duck to water !

Another fine 3-way session of 4-Pin tonight at t'Mill.

Sanitary rules followed of course.

Jokes and drinks.

Pub closing at 9.30 allowed us time to visit Off-licence on rhe way home for a case of Pino Grigio.

And caught the Chinese just before the shutters went down.

Now back home, more Strongbows to accompany meal.

Living the dream.

[gandalf the untidy]

hi tommo

sure i xould get 1 or 2 teams together if needed

Cheers Colin,

Plans shelved for the present, but I have an "oven ready" format for when circumstances permit.