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Post by NigelS on Sept 17, 2008 14:44:42 GMT
As you may or may not know our new Tournament Director, Dave Alder, has had a family bereavment but will be continuing to run the tournaments over the course of the next 3 months. He has asked for my help, especially with regard to trying to fathom what teams/ individuals will be represented over the next 3 weeks in particular. It really does help to know who or who is not coming.
I will be there to help Dave next week and we will run the tournament together. If captains or representatives from the counties look at the list below and add confirmations of attendance to this thread, myself and Dave would be most grateful.
21st September - I am assuming these 10 teams are coming Sunday, if ANYONE knows any different please let me know ASAP
Div 1
Oxon A
Sussex A
Berks A
Hants
Oxon B
Div 2
Kent A
Surrey A
Northants
Bucks
Sussex B
28th September
Ladies County (yellow confirmed)
Div 1
Oxon A
Sussex A
Kent
Surrey A
Div 2
Sussex B
Oxon B
Surrey B
Hants
(I am pretty sure Bucks have dropped out)
Mens Individuals
Sussex - Rik Dewdney
Oxon- Phil Collins
Berks
Surrey - Gary Powell
Northants
Kent- Mark Brewster
Bucks- Ernie Jordan
Hants - Chris Wing
Cambs - Johnny George??
Guernsey - Bob Chapple
5th October
Div 3
Cambs??
Berks B ??
Surrey B ??
Kent B - Should be if I can get the teams sorted and there is enough opposition - Sav
Ladies Individuals
Sussex - Jean Brackenridge
Oxon - Pauline Withey
Berks
Surrey - Denise Wills
Northants
Kent - Jackie Peckham
Bucks
Hants - Chris Toner
(Cambs - looks like a no)
Thanks for everyones help in advance.
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Post by milko on Sept 17, 2008 15:06:40 GMT
Mens Ind
Oxon - Phil Collins
Ladies Ind
Oxon - Pauline Withey
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markb
Full Forum Member
Posts: 50
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Post by markb on Sept 17, 2008 15:43:23 GMT
men ind kent mark brewster
womens ind jackie peckham
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Post by mervtheswerv on Sept 17, 2008 17:49:21 GMT
Hi Nigel, I'm not sure if there is a county team from Bucks, but I'm 99% certain the mens Ind will be Ernie Jordan.
Merv
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Post by peetee on Sept 17, 2008 17:56:48 GMT
On a very  note Oxon's Keith Sheard has withdrawn from the team :( |
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Post by milko on Sept 18, 2008 13:17:39 GMT
On a very note Oxon's Keith Sheard has withdrawn from the team :( So has Mark Turner, saying he wasn't told in time. :( |
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Post by Chris on Sept 18, 2008 17:39:16 GMT
21st Sept... Hants do have a team and will be there
8th Sept. Hants Ladies have a Team entering.
IKO Mens is Chris Wing whom I believe is definitely entering,
if not then Chris Newson who will be there is the entry... so Hants have IKO entry Mens
5th Oct Chris Toner is Hants IKO Womens Singles entry and will be there
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Post by Chris on Sept 18, 2008 17:47:13 GMT
Sorry typo...
Meant 28th Sept and not 8th... ooppss!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2008 9:57:05 GMT
mens indiv Gary Powell
ladies indiv Denise Wills
will be Surrey's reps: presumably they will be invited through official channels rather than leaving it to filter through from the Forum ?
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Post by NigelS on Sept 19, 2008 18:13:33 GMT
mens indiv Gary Powell ladies indiv Denise Wills will be Surrey's reps: presumably they will be invited through official channels rather than leaving it to filter through from the Forum ? Tommo, I doubt there will be an official invite, I never used to invite players but I did try and check that individuals were coming at the county champs the week before and I would make an announcement over the mike. However it is also the players responsibility too. They know they have made these AEBBA tournaments when they win their county singles or should at least be told by their county commitee. It is then up to them to be proactive and make themselves available or if they are not to inform the runner up as soon as possible so they have a chance to play. The dates have been out for 8 months. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2008 20:03:12 GMT
but I did try and check that individuals were coming at the county champs the week before and I would make an announcement over the mike. That's good enough for me Nigel, and all that I had in mind really when I said "invited through official channels". All I want to avoid is the Forum being a victim of its own success and someone on here getting the blame for someone else's no-show through not realising that they had been delegated the responsibility of relaying the information to their County - when ultimately the responsibility is the AEBBA's. |
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Post by NigelS on Sept 19, 2008 20:30:46 GMT
Yep, between us me and Dave will try and get final details for the individuals this weekend, but all the info on here already is a great help. Agree that the forum is used as a valuable tool in getting word around but of course not all players have access to it.
PS Dave is checking with Charlie from Bucks, and if there is any development there I will let you know.
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Post by NigelS on Sept 19, 2008 20:41:38 GMT
Latest update - Dave Alder has told me Bucks will NOT be there Sunday. It seems they thought they had been relegated last year, even though I made it clear there was no relegation because Cambridge dropped out before last years County Champs took place. They can make the weekend for Division 3 apparently ::)
Very disappointing and of course those that suffer are the other Division 2 teams.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2008 21:43:43 GMT
Very disappointing and of course those that suffer are the other Division 2 teams. .........for the second year running. Question for you then, Nigel: What would have happened if a team had dropped out of the 1st Division ? Would a 2nd Div team have been promoted, and if so would it have been the team which finished bottom of the 1st last year, or the one which finished 2nd in the 2nd ? I asked this question last year and was left with the impression that it would have been neither, but that the 1st Division teams would have had double games. But as it was the 2nd Division to which it was happening, it wasn't worth bothering with the double games. So I think that as it's happened again to us, there is a moral obligation to give us a decent go this year. The only palatable alternative is to promote Berks B if you are letting Bucks play in Div 3. I'm sure Berks would jump at the chance, especially being on home turf, as it were. |
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Post by NigelS on Sept 19, 2008 22:53:55 GMT
When Bucks dropped out in 2005 (due to play in div 1 after being promoted in 2004) I offered Hampshire to stay in Division 1 despite them being relegated to div 2 the year before. But that year I had 11 teams, and although I was told I must play a 4 and 6 format by some quarters I stuck to my guns and we played 5 in both divisions which was to me to most sensible solution. Originally i had planed for a 5 and a 6 - so the div 2 players should have had 5 games each
So to answer your question, if I was TD (so this is my opinion only) and a division 1 team had dropped out I would offer Kent A a place in division 1. I think it is important to try and keep 5 teams in division 1 - that has been the way it has been for many years - the top 5 teams being in div 1.
But I don't think it was because "it happened to division 2" that we didn't bother with double games last year- it is just not feasible with 9 teams to give that division with 4 teams double games when players want to be out the door before 7pm. That's the way it is I am afraid. Don't forget in all the years where we had just 9 county sides (no B sides) the Division 2 was always 4 teams (until you go back when Wilts, Syorks and Leics were playing) and was always only 3 games per player.
Promoting Berks B? - personally I am not comfortable with letting a team that only finsished 2nd in div 3 into div 2. And we will only have 2 teams for div 3! Again my opinion and ultimately it is Dave's decision but in any case it is very late in the day to nvite the 7 players picked for Berks B, home turf or not. I seem to remember why I gave up the TD's job now, Dave will not be able to win whichever way he goes.
It is unfortunate and I sympathise with the div 2 players, I have played division 2 a few times with only the 3 legs, but I guess that is incentive of getting into div 1. It shouldn't happen now with the B teams allowed but I always supected it would cause more trouble and complications than good when we allowed them in.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2008 23:06:10 GMT
I can confirm Johnny George will be the Cambridge representative on the 28th September.
Is this at the Reading PO?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2008 23:41:36 GMT
Well yes Nigel, you've given a good explanation, but it can't harm the situation to kick a few ideas around while there's still time.
Rather that than someone come up with the same 'bright idea' on the day and wonder why it was never considered. At least we know the reasons in advance, the main one being that with less than 2 days to go it is virtually impossible now to change anything.
And worth everyone bearing in mind that you're only doing this a service this year and shouldn't be obliged to take any flak.
What a shame though that 2 years ago we lost a keen Northants B side, which would have balanced everything out equally.
Shocked to hear that Div 3 is now depleted as well, I thought with Bucks joining them they'd be up to five teams now ?
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Post by NigelS on Sept 20, 2008 11:55:51 GMT
I can confirm Johnny George will be the Cambridge representative on the 28th September. Is this at the Reading PO? Yes Reading PO Club 11.30am registration |
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Post by NigelS on Sept 20, 2008 12:03:34 GMT
Agree Tommo there is no harm in kicking a few ideas around, but of course the limited time means we can't do much. Its just a good job I had prepared a 9 team format in the first place.
Re Northants B, yes they were keen but not keen enough to play in division 3, so has soon as they were due to play in div 3 they dropped out. I am afraid you can't pick and choose what division you want to play in.
Which is Bucks problem this year, because thay can't make div 2, they surely just can't roll up and play in div 3. If they win it do hey then get promoted? If it were up to me they would not be allowed to play, Dave may relent and let them in, but it does cause other issues.
So without Cambs and Bucks, div 3 is down to Kent B, Berks B and Surrey B, so moving Berks B up would only leave us with 2 teams.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2008 13:05:50 GMT
So without Cambs and Bucks, div 3 is down to Kent B, Berks B and Surrey B, so moving Berks B up would only leave us with 2 teams. Ah you've been on that Management course, Nigel ! ;D ;D Please do not leave people with the impression that I would want only two teams in Div 3. That is ridiculous ! I only advocated a swap, like for like, Berks B for Bucks. Also, I thought I read somewhere that we had got the wrong end of the stick over Cambs, and they were sending a County side to play in Div 3, it was the National Team Championships that they were not planning to enter ? Unless I'm missing something you will finish up with four Div 3 teams, maybe even five. Once again confusion abounds - but it's something we should be used to by now! Re: banning Bucks over their stance this year, why not let the 3rd Div teams have a democratic vote on it ? I'm sure the outcome will be that they would rather have as many games to play as possible - as of course would we in Div 2. Unless you're still in the process of calling Bucks' bluff on the issue, in which case thanks for your efforts on our behalf. ;) |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 20, 2008 13:33:07 GMT
My memory of last year is that it was made quite clear the Cambs were relegated from division 2, not Bucks, as Cambs did not show.
It's hardly worth coming up this distance from East Kent for three games, two of which may be against the break and enormous gaps between. >:( >:( Not your fault Nige.
No Bucks should not play in division 3
Sav
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2008 13:50:48 GMT
My memory of last year is that it was made quite clear the Cambs were relegated from division 2, not Bucks, as Cambs did not show. Correct. It's hardly worth coming up this distance from East Kent for three games, two of which may be against the break and enormous gaps between. >:( >:( Not your fault Nige. No Bucks should not play in division 3 Sav I agree your earlier comment, I feel the same way - disappointed. But you can't hold a gun to Bucks' head, and if Bucks were allowed to turn up on 5th Oct, surely that would be better for Kent B ? |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 20, 2008 14:33:43 GMT
I agree your earlier comment, I feel the same way - disappointed. But you can't hold a gun to Bucks' head, and if Bucks were allowed to turn up on 5th Oct, surely that would be better for Kent B ? Not if Kent 'B' come second to Bucks winning division 3 and Bucks should not be playing as they were not relegated. Sav |
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Post by NigelS on Sept 20, 2008 14:51:31 GMT
Agree we are not sure on the Cambs situation, but time ticks on and it doesn't look good. So it looks like only 7 counties represented at this years champs - an all time low! Does anyone want to play for their county anymore?
For very much the reason Sav stated i would not be comfortable with Bucks going in div 3 this year. They could find themselves back in div 2 for 2009, that is hardly a penalty for not turning up this year on the right day and putting the other division 2 teams out. Could you let them play without the chance of promotion at the other teams discretion? Maybe, but then they probably will have lost the incentive to come.
I will discuss with Dave tomorrow, and ultimately he will decide.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2008 17:09:42 GMT
Couldn't the county matches be played in a similar format to the Team Championships?
So if 7 counties only show this year it saves a Sunday in the calender plus you get more games for travelling.
But yeah Nigel is right people don't want to play the county game, I just got fed up with what happened last year.
The snag is who wants to from cambridge drive a 4 hour round trip to play 3 games in division 3?
Therefore my suggestion at top would help with motivation for counties further away.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2008 18:08:45 GMT
Just to answer Sav and Nigel's point about Bucks.
You have an unprecedented situation here, and could get round it in a novel way to meet the situation head on.
Why not.................
Allow Bucks into Div 3 for this year as "Bucks B".
It would not then matter a jot about next year, 'cos they will only have one team next year and that team (Bucks or Bucks A) will be relegated from Div 2 come what may.
And the incentive to turn up to play is there in the form of having a crack at winning, if they are good enough.
Sorry guys, I am all for protocol and all that that entails, but am also a firm believer that we should wherever possible be encouraging the playing of bar billiards.
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Post by triplex on Sept 20, 2008 18:31:23 GMT
Looks like another 4 Hour round trip for Northants again then for 3 Games >:( again :(
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2008 18:36:25 GMT
That makes the complete set. All Div 2 teams have now had a moan about it : Surrey A (tommo); Sussex B (BB Warrior); Kent A (Sav) and Northants (Triplex). :-X :-X :-X :-X
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Post by NigelS on Sept 20, 2008 18:43:07 GMT
Johnny - the format for county is similar to the team champs. You may only get 3 games in the team champs even if all 9 counties show. The incentive i guess is that if you win all the games you get to play another game in the final I suppose.
Also it is much more likely that in division 3 you can play double games - players in div 3 have played 6 games in both of the last 2 years. BUT players did complain when this happened (in 2006 with an 8pm finish) as they thought it finished too late - so you can't win either way.
In response to Tommo - I don't like the "Bucks B" idea. You probably thought I wouldn't ;). I understand what you are saying, but the incentive is still not there really as promotion is not on offer. My view is that they have not played on the correct day so it is tough. I also believe that we must encourage players and teams to play but we can't make a mockery of the county system to do so.
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Post by triplex on Sept 20, 2008 18:49:30 GMT
Its just unfortunate that it seems we only ever get 3 games now, each year a team seems to pull out at the last minute. I can understand teams that travel the furthest. But maybe the teams which are more local don't give us any consideration when they make these decisions >:(
Would be nice if some one could look at the records and see when we actually did play 4! ???
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note Oxon's Keith Sheard has withdrawn from the team :(
