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Post by ponytailguy on Feb 13, 2009 19:06:25 GMT
but when is the latest date you need the money by adam
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Post by peetee on Mar 13, 2009 19:00:20 GMT
How much did the AEBBA collect from Bournmouth?.
I will arrange a cheque shortly from the Oxford League after it's been passed by our members.
Pete
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Post by Colemanator on Mar 13, 2009 19:07:41 GMT
I'm surprised that the Bournemouth meetings minutes and outcome have not been publicised, there was controversy, and some mystery benefactors have come up with the shortfall of cash on top of the donations. Why do people want to remain annonymous is anybodys guess,teir offer was accepted, DESPITE the fact that Maxi Mcdonnell had offered to stump up the whole 10k to buy the tables. Max's offer was refused and he was not pleased at all. I wouldn't be surprised if things don't alter again?
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Post by peetee on Mar 14, 2009 13:54:33 GMT
I'm surprised that the Bournemouth meetings minutes and outcome have not been publicised, there was controversy, and some mystery benefactors have come up with the shortfall of cash on top of the donations. Why do people want to remain annonymous is anybodys guess,teir offer was accepted, DESPITE the fact that Maxi Mcdonnell had offered to stump up the whole 10k to buy the tables. Max's offer was refused and he was not pleased at all. I wouldn't be surprised if things don't alter again? Quite agree with your comments.The meeting in Bournmouth in my eyes was a shambles :P I'm glad Pete Sainsbury stepped in to make his point. Yes Maxi was not a happy man i'm not surprised.
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David.G
Distinguished Member
Posts: 550
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Post by David.G on Mar 19, 2009 19:30:17 GMT
Minutes of meetings at Bournemouth have been posted in (sec corner / Bournemouth meetings)
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Post by milhouse on Apr 5, 2009 19:18:08 GMT
Hi Everyone, It is time to start collecting money from those of you who have kindly offered to invest in the tables. Can you please send your cheque to me with an additional note with your name and address so i can send you back a receipt (if you would like one) Also, can you please state if you are giving the money as a donation or if you would like it back in the future. I will be at the Portsmouth Open for those of you who would like to give me the money then, i will bring my receipt book with me. For anyone who has not put their name down and would like to donate or invest some money, please feel free to send some money to me. I will set up a seperate thread so we can all keep track of how much we have.
My address is :-
Mark Trafford 42 Otters Reach Kennington Oxford OX1 5QL
Thanking you all in advance
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Post by peetee on Apr 14, 2009 8:53:04 GMT
A cheque from the Oxford Bar Billiards Association will be sent at the end of April after our committee meeting on the 28/4/09.
Pete
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BFG
Distinguished Member
Posts: 591
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Post by BFG on Apr 14, 2009 9:22:58 GMT
West Sussex committee meets on the 18th April where the request for the cheque to be raised will be made.
Just looking through the previous threads several major stumbling blocks were exposed have these been worked around now?
Also what is the total value of pledges received now? Is there a shortfall plan in place?
Thanks
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Post by peetee on May 1, 2009 17:18:34 GMT
Hi Mark
A cheque for £200 from the Oxford Bar Billiard League will be posted shortly. Receipt required please.
Pete
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Post by milhouse on May 28, 2009 16:37:22 GMT
As you can see, i have created a seperate thread just for the investments prople have given. Apologies to anyone who had sent their money to me a few weeks ago as i have only just got around to banking the cheques. As you can also see, we are still a long way short of our target. I will be around at the Sussex Open next weekend, so feel free to give me some cash or a cheque.
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Post by Chris on Jun 15, 2009 20:35:00 GMT
Dear All
For me to invest monies I expect a formal written business proposition and an outline of exactly what will happen, to me personally.
I do not expect to invest £200 or more at Curries for a Fridge Freezer without a formal contract from them would you ?
I am the first to appreciate goodwill... I have to say that thanks to Tony and Brian we have had good will for many years and relied on it...
All England is asking for substantial sums of monies.
I want a formal written request stating: How the monies will be used Storage Lists of names of drivers for the evnets and backups in case of illness Expected terms of reypayment for the loan minimum and maximum in terms of timescales What would happen if it does not work re investors monies and the tables ( will they be sold and each investor receives a percentage?)
I will not invest just because I use this site.
What if I did not ? who has sent out appropriate formal requests in writing outlining how this will be managed?
I also appreciate all the work All England Committe do..
I will invest when apprpriate procecedures and protocols are applied and I have in writing a secure investment.
Regards Chris
I know you all work hard re events... I did myself many years ago with the Portsmouth Open...there does though need to be some formality about this....
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Post by BB Warrior on Jun 15, 2009 22:36:49 GMT
Well said Chris, I am sure that a number of potential investors have been thinking much the same.... myself included.
The same questions and points keep being raised.... in different threads unfortunately..... by various people but no real answers seem to be given.
At one stage, we had a list of names and a figure in excess of £8,000 that had been pledged..... but 4 months after the meeting at Bournemouth, only 25% of that money has been collected.
I will be honest enough to say that I am one of the 75% who is yet to part with his money..... simply because the Bournemouth meetings were a shambles and we were left with so many areas that were unknown and uncertain........
As Chris has stated above, there should be some formal agreement between AEBBA and the investors..... and the investors have every right to know how their money will be used and what provisions will be put in place to protect their investment.
I feel that another meeting should be held as soon as possible(either at Kent or Berkshire) to answer the points that have been raised here which, hopefully, will give potential investors more confidence that the proposition is viable.
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MID
Full Forum Member
Where's my cue!
Posts: 232
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Post by MID on Jun 15, 2009 22:48:54 GMT
[glow=red,2,300]This is copied from another thread[/glow]Salient Points From Table Committee Meeting Held at Frenches Club 25th January 2009
Present:- Dave Alder, Chris Saville, Brian Daniels and Eric Hill.
STORAGE; Reading Post Office Club have agreed to long term storage. The club is independent of the Post Office and so not threatened by Post Office Closures.
LOGISTICS; Insurance costs will prohibit table hirers driving the van. Panel of nominated drivers and mates must be found from the Reading and surrounding leagues to deliver the tables. This is viewed as a major difficulty. If a pool of half a dozen can be found, they will only be rostered for two or three weekends in a year.
TABLE LOADING AND TETHERING; Instructions to be produced.
COST PROJECTIONS;
Receipts: approx 100 tables hires @ £52 plus £300 from AEBBA total £5500 Bournemouth additional entry fees for table fund £700+ Payments based on last year: Fuel £780 Road Tax £185, MOT and Service £155, Van Insurance £414, Public Liability £647 - Total £2190. Gross operating Profit is thus around £4,000. It must be expected that van repairs and table recovering costs are encountered. Loan repayments will be targeted over four years with at least one interim payment. If the financial position allows it , Loan sponsors to be given a small but unspecified interest rate on their loan. Fund to be built up for van replacement after loans repayed. Any additional profits can be ploughed into tables to avoid appearance as profit making and tax liable. Hire fees to be reviewed and set at non profit making level once the project has reached stability. Initial fund of £10,000 plus £1,000 start-up costs is needed for the project to be funded.
PUBLIC LIABILITY; Hirers responsible for their own but we must still have it as claims can occur away from venues.
PLEDGES; AEBBA secretary to start calling in pledges at Bournemouth.
OPENS, PARTICULARLY AT OXFORD AND BOURNEMOUTH; Dave Alder to canvas as many people as possible. remaining pledges and volunteer drivers to be found as soon as possible. If we overshoot the target the £200 a share will be reduced accordingly.
FUND RAISING AND LOGISTICS DEADLINE; All facets must be in place by september. THE PROJECT WILL NOT GO AHEAD AND ALL OPENS AND NATIONAL COMPETITIONS WILL CEASE IF SUFFICIENT SPONSORS AND DRIVERS CANNOT BE FOUND.
VAN INSURANCE; This must include a coutesy van in case of accident.
TABLE HIRE; Table receipt in good condition to be agreed on delivery and collection. Hirers will be charged for damage wilst in their possession.
CONCLUSION; The main difficulty envisaged is delivery and collection. Drivers and further sponsors must be found at the next opens or it will be the end of all county and national competitions at halls.
[|Edit - Changed a cost that had been missed]
[glow=red,2,300]I put this on another thread this afternoon[/glow] Brian spoke to Dave Alder yesterday, and he has asked us to say on his behalf, that there are 7 committed drivers at the moment, there is a set of All England lights available if required.
Also Brian will be giving him the Van Insurance details and Public Liabilty Insurance details so Dave can ring around to ensure a smooth take over.
Dave is very busy at work at the moment (16 hrs a day), so has not had a chance to get on the site.
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BFG
Distinguished Member
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Post by BFG on Jun 15, 2009 23:18:33 GMT
In the normal great scheme of things a committee or sub committee is set up and people voice their opinions and concerns.
The elected committee then respond with solutions and assurances.
Is it just me or is there something missing on this thread?
I doff my cap and thank the PO club for their offer of storage
I also thank the seven drivers for stepping forward, what was the insurance quote for 7 drivers? Thinking about it what van is this they will be driving? What sterling does it have?
I do not for one second doubt the committment and enthusiasm shown by all involved in this.....But is there a league out there that cannot find a van and a couple of guys to load it??
Seems to me this is the major risk to success the availability of drivers, along with the potential damage in transit which I think has a simple fix.
Can we just refresh.....
How many tables? And the van we are buying? The total cost? Pledges so far?
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Post by BB Warrior on Jun 16, 2009 9:34:07 GMT
Thank you for copying this over Mary.... as I said above, with things appearing in different threads it is easy to miss some of the things that have been said. It does answer some of the points that have raised, however to me the figures shown below do not add up...... COST PROJECTIONS; Receipts: approx 100 tables hires @ £52 plus £300 from AEBBA total £5500 Bournemouth additional entry fees for table fund £700+ Payments based on last year: Fuel £780 Road Tax £185, MOT and Service £155, Van Insurance £414, Public Liability £647 - Total £2190. Gross operating Profit is thus around £4,000. It must be expected that van repairs and table recovering costs are encountered. Loan repayments will be targeted over four years with at least one interim payment. If the financial position allows it , Loan sponsors to be given a small but unspecified interest rate on their loan. Fund to be built up for van replacement after loans repayed. Any additional profits can be ploughed into tables to avoid appearance as profit making and tax liable. Hire fees to be reviewed and set at non profit making level once the project has reached stability. Initial fund of £10,000 plus £1,000 start-up costs is needed for the project to be funded. FUND RAISING AND LOGISTICS DEADLINE; All facets must be in place by september. THE PROJECT WILL NOT GO AHEAD AND ALL OPENS AND NATIONAL COMPETITIONS WILL CEASE IF SUFFICIENT SPONSORS AND DRIVERS CANNOT BE FOUND. The Gross Profit figure of £4,000 includes £300 from AEBBA (which presumably would stop if they own the tables?) and £700+ from the additional funds raised on entry fees at Bournemouth..... which presumably were a one-off? Therefore, these cannot be included as part of an ongoing prediction of income. Similarly, fuel costs have increased in the last year and I would imagine that Insurance Costs will also increase substantially given the number of additional drivers who will be using the van in the future. Although it has been mentioned that provision for van repairs and table recovering will have to be allowed for, no costs have been indicated..... understandable about the van repairs, however a good estimate of costs for the table recovering must be known based the current figures? How often? What is the cost per table? Who will do the recovering? Allowing for the correct (reduced) future income figure, increased known costs for fuel, insurance etc and the additional "unknown" costs as well..... is the predicted repayment period of 4 years accurate......?? One other thing that I don't quite understand..... since £700+ was raised at Bournemouth from the additional £5 charge to enter, why has a similar scheme not been implemented at the other Opens?? That would have raised the following "donations"...... Oxford, 91 entries = £455 Portsmouth, 96 entries = £480 Guernsey, 56 entries = £280 Surrey, 96 entries = £480 Sussex, 108 entries = £540 Kent, 82 entries = £410 A total of £2,645. Although the extra £5 may have caused a few grumbles, I doubt if anybody would have objected or refused to pay once the reason was known. In my opinion, that is a lost opportunity for the AEBBA to have easily raised a substantial amount towards the costs which would not have needed to be repaid..... and it is something that really should have been thought of and implemented! >:( :-X
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Post by JB on Jun 16, 2009 11:12:14 GMT
Bournemouth is run by AEBBA whereas the other opens are run and organised by the Counties.
Personally i would have hated asking people for £15 entry fee for the Sussex Open and to be honest i dont think we would have got 108 entries.
Alan and i enter most of the opens and this would cost us another £60. Im not sure that at £15 each we would enter all of them probably just one or two. When theres 2 or 3 entering from the same family the extras soon add up and make for an expensive day.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 13:09:11 GMT
Well, unless the money is all in by September, we are told we can forget the National tournaments for next year (and beyond ?)
Those who have pledged did so in good faith on the basis of what was known at the time, and will be expected to be forthcoming with their monies - the timescale for collecting the 80% which is outstanding is diminishing by the day !
Those like myself who are only 'possible' investors at this stage need the additional reassurances that the scheme will work:
Are 100 table hires a year guaranteed, for instance ? It has been hinted before that those leagues furthest away from Reading could be goaded into making alternative arrangements when faced with an increase in hire to £52 per table (from the £40 mooted originally) and a double journey (drive to Reading at own expense; collection/delivery of tables to venue; return of tables to Reading; drive back home at own expense).
Sorry if this stirs up a hornet's nest, but a lot of questions have been asked (not just by me !), and although a committee was set up at the start of the year, there has been very little in the way of official communication outside of this Forum (ie to the Counties direct) - and, apart from Mary's recent message, very little in the way of detailed response to our concerns from those with an official capacity to do so.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 16, 2009 15:55:20 GMT
My involvement on the committee was very much to get it kickstarted, following on I have been taking a step back to match my diminishing involvement at national level.
I spoke to Mark Trafford at Sussex and have asked him to talk to Dave Alder to see if there is a problem as it's quite a while since Dave has logged onto the forum, MID may have supplied the answer.
Whatever, final decisions need to be made.
Sav.
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Post by Sparky on Jun 16, 2009 17:13:57 GMT
I too have my concerns regarding this situation and as others have already expressed them very well will simply add my own request for more detail please.
As Dave has problems then I would suggest that someone else on the AEBBA committee takes over sorting this out before it is too late, or that the committee appoint (second) someone else to act on their behalf.
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MID
Full Forum Member
Where's my cue!
Posts: 232
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Post by MID on Jun 16, 2009 19:14:38 GMT
At the 2008 AGM Brian and Tony offered to sell the Tables and van to the AEBBA.
1. Mercedes Sprinter Luton Van (M Reg) with 10 months MOT, 7 months TAX, which has equipment to secure tables (straps and Rails).
2. 8 Bar Billiard Tables, 8 Scoreboards and Easels. 8 Sets of Balls & Pegs. Plus 1 trolley to move tables.
Price to AEBBA £10,000 _____________________________________________
This years bookings of 105 tables @ £52 per table equals £5460 (not including £300 from AEBBA for hire Sept to Nov)
2008 expenses were £2190.21 if this stays within the same sort of costing then £3200 plus could be made alone from table hire.
Since taking over hiring the tables, they have all been recovered, re-varnished, and kept to a high spec. If no damage is done to the tables then I would think no recovering should be needed for another 2 years at least, if kept to the same standard they are now and looked after.
After a few telephone calls today, we have a few quotes for recovering the tables ranging from £200 - £260 per table exc VAT. Also Brian has spoken to Ken Hussey and he is willing to supply sets of balls £15, Pegs £10 per set, D’s 50p each plus VAT.
Concerning Van insurance, which is fully comp, breakdown cover, windscreen, replacement van, and any driver over 25 with the policy holders permission, but excludes van hire, this cost £399.19.
Public Liability / goods in transit insurance, was £713.66 this year up £66.64 from 2008.
At the time of looking for quotes on these insurances, they were the best prices for the cover it provides. Fuel prices MOT costs cannot be predicted.
Even if you take a figure of £3000 profit from table hire a yr, times 4 years is £12000, not including any extra Bournmouth entry money other than hire charges or profit AEBBA can make on comps from Sept to Dec which they should do to cover expenses and go towards hire (wear and tear).
As from today Brian has 52 tables hired for 2010, and continuing to take bookings on the understanding that AEBBA will be taking over the running and delivering of the tables in 2010. There are about 18 hires to different area’s in a year, if you have 7 drivers then they should only go out a maximum of 3 wk ends a yr.
Brian and Tony made the offer to AEBBA thinking it would in the long term protect the competition tables, keep down prices to all who hire the tables (inc us in Portsmouth) and to keep the game going (if individuals ran it as a business then prices would probably go up to cover wages etc. Even then there is no guarantee the tables would not be sold off on Ebay at a later date as they were fed up or not making money fast enough).
Basically AEBBA can only own the tables if your willing to help one way or another as Assn members... We don’t want to see prices go up for table hire, or to see them being sold off, at the end of the day Brian and Tony will NOT be able to carry on delivering the tables.
Someone has offered to buy the tables from Brian and Tony, but it would not benefit Bar Billiard players as they would not be available for hire.
Brian does not mind if you have any questions to be answered, but I would like to point out although it may say I am logged onto this site it does not mean I check it (usually busy with 2 girls etc etc...), so if you wish to send a email or call Brian your more than welcome to do so.
No one said Dave has problems, he is working long hours at the moment, and I don’t know how many of the committee actually come on the site to actually see your concerns, if they don’t check the site they don’t know how you feel, has anyone personally asked the committee members directly. If anyone is worried about their investment, then the money is in the tables, as long as we as an association look after them, then you should have no problem to recoup the investment outlay by re-selling them if things don’t work out with the hire.
I can confirm that Brian and Tony have given Mark Trafford there £500 each.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2009 22:40:22 GMT
Thank you Mary,
What you have revealed goes a long way towards offering the potential investor the required reassurances.
Even a simple thing like an undertaking that the van will be kept continually topped up with petrol (as part of the AEBBA overheads) could turn out to be a sweetener for the more far-flung counties.
What we need now is a declaration of intent from each county that they will use the service, and for the drivers and mates applicable to each hire to be nominated.
We shall now await for AEBBA Sec to glean this information.
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BFG
Distinguished Member
Posts: 591
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Post by BFG on Jun 16, 2009 22:47:20 GMT
I must say MID that is a really great post!
So much information that is needed and a great point for anyone to re start from!!
Think we can now actually see what is on the table (pardon the pun!)
So what do we think now?
For me a good investment in hard nose business would show it's return in 3 years. If we accept that this one contains an element of charity then 4 years sounds pretty good.
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Post by milhouse on Jul 9, 2009 12:24:53 GMT
I have modified the post with actual pledges received. Total so far is £3,650 with roughly the same amount pledged again to still receive. If people can let me know contact details for anyone on the list of pledges to collect, can you please pm me.
I will be down in Kent on Sunday for anyone who would like to give me their money then.
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David.G
Distinguished Member
Posts: 550
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Post by David.G on Jul 22, 2009 21:48:01 GMT
Just a reminder.
Investor meeting at post office club Reading on August 23rd beginning at 12 30pm
I still need to know how many will be comming
so please e-mail me at aebbasec@aol.com
Many thanks
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 2, 2009 22:21:15 GMT
Please could the list of "Actual Investments Received" be updated to include the payments received at Kent and subsequently as I know that more people have made payments..... ::)
With the deadline drawing nearer, it would be nice to know where we are in comparison to the £11k needed..... ???
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Post by milko on Aug 5, 2009 13:05:10 GMT
Please could the list of "Actual Investments Received" be updated to include the payments received at Kent and subsequently as I know that more people have made payments..... ::) With the deadline drawing nearer, it would be nice to know where we are in comparison to the £11k needed..... ??? I agree with Dave, so come on Mark, what's the latest figure collected???
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Post by milhouse on Aug 5, 2009 14:25:39 GMT
Just money received from Dave Ingram added, so total now stands at £3,850
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 5, 2009 14:38:56 GMT
Just money received from Dave Ingram added, so total now stands at £3,850 So, only 50% of the people who said that they would contribute have actually passed the money over.....?? :o That doesn't sound very promising. :'( When is the date that the money has to be in by to ensure that the table purchase will go through?
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Post by Colemanator on Aug 5, 2009 19:51:52 GMT
Just money received from Dave Ingram added, so total now stands at £3,850 So, only 50% of the people who said that they would contribute have actually passed the money over.....?? :o That doesn't sound very promising. :'( When is the date that the money has to be in by to ensure that the table purchase will go through? Max had the money to buy the set and was turned down :-/ I'm not looking to be controversial, just stating a fact, would've been sorted by now.
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Post by Sparky on Aug 5, 2009 20:29:01 GMT
Add me to the list please Dave, although my wallet cannot expand too much if we don't get the 55 hoped for and I still have a job :-/ Graham Unfortunately my worst fears have been realised so, regrettably, cannot afford to help with this worthwhile and important venture :'(
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