County championship date?

[Colemanator]

I agree keith, don't seem right to me.

[Lolly]

I will also add my bit. We have asked and asked for weeks and weeks to see if Kent B were going to field a team, without any answers being provided. This is just not good enough.
I also agree that as Bucks could not be bothered to field a team last year that they should be relegated to Div 3 and Northants B remain where they rightfully should be.

Seems to me as if its one rule for one and another for everyone else.

Sort it out lads. >:(

[NigelS]

Whilst Bucks did not send a team last year they would have been in Division 1 in 2005 and were so automatically relegated to division 2. To relegate them 1 division into div 2 is sensible but to relegate them 2 divisions to div 3 would have been very harsh.

With regards to Kent B, they had entered a B team a long time ago which I put on this board and then I was told by Sav there were doubts about getting a team but I had a message from him yesterday that they did have a team for Sunday. I did say that if Kent B could not show then Northants B would be promoted to division 2 otherwise they would be division 3

Whilst I understand Northants wanting to send 2 teams on the same day I must make it clear that it is not possible to play all 3 divisions on the same day with 8 tables unless we all want to stay past midnight. Bucks should indeed be penalised for not turning up last year but not to the extent where they are put into the bottom division - that would not be fair.

[Lolly]

Hang on Nige, you received confirmation that Kent B were to send a team YESTERDAY! So if that message was that they could not have attended, do you really think that we would have been able to get a team together in 2 days to take our rightfull place.

Come, lets be real about this.

Or would it have been the usual, all the other teams have to sit out a series as there are not enough teams to fullfill the fixtures. Meaning that you can sit for 3 hours inbetween matches. >:(

And yes, I am in a right arsey mood today!

[Herr von Puebik]

Unbelievable it can only be presumed that the deadline for Kent B to get a team together was 10am Sunday Morning in which case why didn't Ian Coleman get a straight answer to his question on Sept 6th.

[Lolly]

Exactly Mick! We received no answers when questions were asked!

[NigelS]

Chris, you have to remember that it is firstly Kent B's rightful place to be in division 2 not Northants B. If Kent B had pulled out then I would have extended the invitation to Northants B to play in division 2 but of course, and as is still the case, they have a right to play in division 3. I could have thrown Kent B out, but I know from Sav they have been making every effort to put a team together, and I don't see how throwing them out promotes the game of bar billiards.
I think Northants need to accept that they were only going to get into division 2 if a team dropped out, but they have no rightful place in division 2 as they finished bottom of last years div 2.
Also with 5 teams in each division every team has to sit out one series of matches at some stage during the day. I would be amazed to see a format which has all 10 teams in action at the same time! However if one had dropped out and I was left with 9 teams I have an alternative format planned (in fact I still do as you never know what might happen on Sunday)

[Lolly]

OK, I understand that, but the point being made here is that for a very long time there were doubts over whether Kent B would field a team, so in that case Northants B could have been prepared to take their place.
We asked many many times for confirmation, and did not receive it.

All we are asking for is a little more communication. And lets face it, if we were not on this forum, how else would we have known?

Exactly at what point would you class the deadline to be for confirmation of entry to be, so that as in this case a replacement could be found?

[NigelS]

Chris, I could have given an answer to the original post but it would not have been a definite one and I was waiting for a concrete answer. In retrospect maybe I should have put something to show I was aware that Northants were asking whether Kent B were showing on Sunday.
There is a deadline for entry which Dave Barnes sent out by letter which Kent B adhered to by entering their 2 teams. Sav was honest enough to tell me there were possible problems and kept me informed and they only got their team fully together yesterday. This at least allowed me to let you know that there was a possibility of Northants being place in div 2 if Kent B had dropped out.
I do want to make it clear that Northants B are a divison 3 side, and were only ever on stand- by to play in divsion 2 if Kent had dropped out. This is because they finished bottom of div 2 last year and with Bucks rentering it placed them 11th on the list of county teams. I appreciate that the later that a team gives me notice that they are not playing gives Northants less chance to organise a side, but I am afraid that is the position that they are in, int that they are waiting for another side to drop out to play in div 2. For instance if another side dropped out tomorrow, I would still offer Northants B a place in Ddivision 2 for Sunday but would fully understand if they felt they did not have enough time to organise one but would still be welcome to take their place in division 3.
I appreciate the frustation as I understand you have a side ready to play for Northants B on Sunday, but Kent B had priority due to finish higher up in the table last year.
I shall see you Sunday, and look forward to playing Northants A in Div 1

After reading the discussions back and forth my humble opinion for what it's worth is that Northants B have an equal right to Kent B to be in Div 2 and MORE right to be in Div 2 than Bucks.

I sympathise with Nigel as organiser, he was against B teams being allowed to enter in the first place - and it is now B teams who have thrown everything into turmoil.

But I have even more sympathy for the Northants lads who are now faced with this situation at such a late hour. They have been asking for weeks about news on the format - what would have happened if I hadn't bumped this thread ? They would have had not much more than 24 hours notice which isn't good enough when you have the logistics of who can play in your team on which day and who can't to sort out.

Has anyone thought of asking Kent B if - in these special circumstances - they would be willing to swap places with Northants B ?

If not, then I agree with milko - time and organisation of the event has moved on, and Bucks as a "new" team should have to start again from the bottom.

[Herr von Puebik]

Apologies Clive you should have been thanked for your post which prompted a late response from the organisers.

[Lolly]

Yeah, Thanks Clive.

Its too late to do anything about it now anyway as Northants B will not be able to field a side.

The sad thing is that the guys who represent Northants B will now miss out anyway, as they are very unlikely to submit a team for Div 3 only in October. All that valuable experience lost. :(

[NigelS]

Tommo, I have to question as to whether Northants B have an equal right, to div 2 status as Kent B. They finished below them last year and so are one place lower in the pecking order.

As to Buck's position they have been rightly relgated to div 2. I have explained my reasons to why I am against B teams in the past, and the Bucks situation highlights this. Some feel they should start again and start right at the bottom in div 3. My concern is that Bucks pulled out last year because they did not have enough players (very concerning for a county that has won the competition 6 times before) now they have been able to get a team some argue that they should be relegated them to the very bottom (don't forget they were due to take their place in Div 1 in 2005). The county champs are about getting and keeping as many counties involved, not encouraging the strong counties to monopolise the top divisions. I think Bucks would feel very hard done by if put down to div 3 by after getting a team together they would be demoted two divisions. I think we need to remember this situation could happen to any county and they need to be encouraged back into the competition to ensure they future participation. Bucks have been penalised by relegating them 1 division but I believe it to be an ample penalty.

This doesn't mean I don't sympathise with Northants B. I understand why they want to play div 2 and travel down with their div 1 colleagues. But unfortunately due to them finishing bottom last year they were only ever going to be still in div 2 if other teams dropped out.

It is not possible to keep everyone happy here, but I think that the decisions made to Bucks and Kent B are fair. Northants B still can play division 3 if they wish.

That's a great shame for the competition, but I'll bet the organisers are secretly relieved.

Hope a lesson is learned here - the decision was really to momentous for one person to make, an organising committee should be in place. It only needs to be of, say, three.

Just suppose there had been only three teams in Div 3 and Northants B as one of the teams had ducked out on the day to teach 'em a lesson. That would have naused it up for all concerned. ::)

[Colemanator]

I can see the point of putting Bucks in div 3 would be a bit foolish due to their strength, however, the lateness of kent B is surely an issue, if 2 days ago they confirmed their side, what would've happened if Northants b were offered div2 at that time (2 days ago) and couldn't field a side, there must be point where there is a closing date and that date should've been long gone.

[Hammy]

I agree Colemanator but I suppose we have got to live with the decision. It has been made! It's a tough job for Nige but I'm still not HP. I take it we will be having the usual trip to the driving range for the longest drive challenge etc?!! :)

[Lolly]

Depends on the draw mate. I believe that the Colemanator is bring down his Nimbus 2000! ;D

[Colemanator]

lolly said:

Depends on the draw mate. I believe that the Colemanator is bring down his Nimbus 2000! ;D

Nimbus 2000?, no we're coming down in Simons car..................