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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 5, 2011 23:31:30 GMT
Interesting one in my pairs match tonight.
As I played an Oxford the ball fell off the edge of the 'D', the scorer called a foul shot as I missed the object ball. I accepted the decision without query.
Thinking about it afterwards does this come under rule 31??
Opinions?
Sav.
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Post by bobhall on Jan 5, 2011 23:39:52 GMT
sav was you playing the shot then the ball moved off the spot then you carried on and struck the balls you was aiming for?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 5, 2011 23:54:48 GMT
Yup as I went to strike the cue ball it fell off the 'D' and I could not stop the strike. I struck the edge of the ball with the cue and it skewed sideways across the table.
Quite happy and expected that I lost my score, but thought it an interesting discussion point,.
Sav
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Post by bobhall on Jan 5, 2011 23:59:13 GMT
i always feel if the scorer calls the warning before the the ball is struck then its a foul if he calls after its not as its not ur fault but its a tough one to decide i would say the scorer was probably being fair if called to let you know ball of D before ball was struck
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Post by milhouse on Jan 6, 2011 0:32:42 GMT
i always feel if the scorer calls the foul before the the ball is struck then its a foul if he calls after its not as its not ur fault but its a tough one to decide i would say the scorer was probably being fair if called before ball was struck How could the scorer call a foul if the cue ball has not been struck :-/ |
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Post by bobhall on Jan 6, 2011 0:44:31 GMT
i mean a warning by letting them know the ball is off the D
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 6, 2011 6:56:54 GMT
As I was half way through the cue stroke Bob, the ball fell off the 'D'. I could not stop the shot.
Unluckily I was putting left hand side on the shot and the ball fell to the right, so a misscue was inwvitable
The two pojts are
1) The balls were disturbed other than by normal play, should I have been penalised?
2) Tecnically I played the ball not on the 'D' if I had been luckier and hit the ball I was aiming at, should I have lost my score anyway?
Sav
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Post by barbelman on Jan 6, 2011 7:39:35 GMT
As I was half way through the cue stroke Bob, the ball fell off the 'D'. I could not stop the shot. Unluckily I was putting left hand side on the shot and the ball fell to the right, so a misscue was inwvitable The two pojts are 1) The balls were disturbed other than by normal play, should I have been penalised? 2) Tecnically I played the ball not on the 'D' if I had been luckier and hit the ball I was aiming at, should I have lost my score anyway? Sav Putting the ball on the D is part of normal play and failure to place it securely on the D is the fault of the player (i.e. you :D) so you should be penalised. If someone knocked the table as you were about to play the shot then it would come under rule 31 and the scorer should allow a replay. In practice if you had hit the ball without any other foul and potted something then I bet the scorer would have allowed you to continue even though you were playing the ball off the D and theoretically playing a foul shot. Sometimes the fact that the ball has rolled off is only detectable by the effect it has on the cue ball so the scorer would never know definitively whether it was on or off when the ball was struck... I remember one scorer (who shall be nameless - COLIN!!) watching me struggle to put the ball on the edge of the D, and then foul shotting me when I eventually struck the ball - I was not happy that he didn't follow the convention of telling the player that he considered it off the D...git ;D cheers Tony |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2011 8:36:34 GMT
Good synopsis, Tony. ;)
Yes, ball moving off the D as you're about to hit it counts as an 'act of God' (especially when Sav involved).
Not the same as if you were nudged or the table disturbed.
Definite fowl. (bwark, bwark !) ;D
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Post by specialone on Jan 7, 2011 12:22:52 GMT
Agree 100% with Tony. Also agree the scorer should be proactive and reactive in this area. Have had the foul called against a team mate without warning, not pretty. It is the players resonsibility to put the ball safely on the D. If in doubt ask the scorer 'is it on'. You can always rely on a Barbel angler for the intelligent answer.
TSO
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Post by Colemanator on Jan 7, 2011 13:11:58 GMT
Dodgy D, get a new one ;D
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jan 7, 2011 17:53:58 GMT
Dodgy D, get a new one ;D T'was not my table!! The situation comes into that intersting area of a 'foul' being committed by a happening that the player has absolutely no control over. My belief has always been that a foul should only be penalised if the player makes a mistake. This one is particularly difficult to judge though. Sav |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 18:25:22 GMT
Sav,
I can't believe you're being serious about this. :o
A similar scenario occurs in football when a player is about to take a penalty (having placed it on the spot) and the ball moves forward just as he is about to kick it.
Maybe John Terry should have asked the Ref if he could re-take that penalty that would have won the Champions League as the ball visibly moved ? ;D
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Post by bobhall on Jan 7, 2011 22:20:36 GMT
no tommo john terry shouldnt ever take a penalty he is useless :)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2011 22:41:05 GMT
Beckham's penalty miss, then, for England in 2004...........there was a molehill on the penalty spot. :o
Had that damned mole not poked his head out under the ball just as poor David was about to kick it, we would have beaten Portugal.
Unfair, Ref, can I have that one again? ;D
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enzo
Distinguished Member
Posts: 637
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Post by enzo on Mar 3, 2011 11:41:48 GMT
I didn't realise there was another thread for this rule, I've discussed this in the AEBBA rule section. Both sides have strong points, the player could be seen as at fault by not securely placing the ball down, but if the ball does fall of the D as you are playing your shot, it is a foul as it isn't on the D.
I think the foul has to stand as someone could quite easily miss their shot and do a David Beckham and claim it rolled of the spot therefore no foul. Your table must be in playable condition though, and if it cannot hold the ball correctly then one could refuse to play?
The part I hate about balls rolling off the spot is that some people whack the ball down to make it stay.. I'm not too keen on that myself, If you cracked my tables slate I'd crack you! :(
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