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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 26, 2012 9:10:16 GMT
The staff have been long concerned that less than 10% of our viewers are members of this forum. This has made administration difficult in that we have no idea whether we are reaching the audience we wish to reach.
Long debate has taken place between staff and the almost unanimous staff decision is that core areas of this forum will become viewable by members only on September 1st. This will definitely include the AEBBA area and all affiliated boards.
The non affiliated area will remain as is, viewable by all, postable by members only.
Channel Islands and overseas requires further discussion and opinions from those areas.
We are looking to improve the only communications media Bar Billiards has and would encourage all members to make sure their committees are aware of the speedy results service and information service the forum offers.
We apologise for any inconvenience and request that non members apply for membership through the normal registration icon. You do not have to post on the forum and any personal information will remain confidential to staff. The staff will have a much better idea of who is using our forum.
If non members have any questions then please ask them in the 'Non member, I have a question' board in this category.
Sav, on behalf of the staff members of this forum.
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Post by Chris on Aug 1, 2012 20:38:17 GMT
Personally I have absolutely no problems with the log on in the future.
My concerns are what happens if you are banned from this site for whatever reason now or in the future?
What hapens if like my Chris you cannot use the internet?
The staff on here do a fab job but if you are not PC connected how do you know what is happening and many are not?
There are still some that cannot and do not use a computer
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Post by Chris on Aug 1, 2012 20:42:15 GMT
I think you need to have a new thread called secretaries so that they can pass on info regarding events, So that all know what is happening.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 21:00:09 GMT
My concerns are what happens if you are banned from this site for whatever reason now or in the future? What hapens if like my Chris you cannot use the internet? The staff on here do a fab job but if you are not PC connected how do you know what is happening and many are not? There are still some that cannot and do not use a computer I think you need to have a new thread called secretaries so that they can pass on info regarding events, So that all know what is happening. I'll have a go at answering these points as Sav is pressed for time. First of all, it is very rare that anyone gets banned. I think that there have just been three instances in the 8 years that the Forum has been running. With 400 members that represents less than 1%. The answer of course is "don't get banned" - because if you are there had to be a very good reason for it ! Deleting one's own account - again just a few instances - is another matter entirely and a question of personal choice. I know of two who were unable to live without the forum and asked for their accounts to be reinstated, which we did. In the case of Mr Chris, I don't think there's anything we could do to prevent him from looking over your shoulder, and in fact some people run 'joint accounts' (H & J; Ernie and Dawn etc) which we see no harm in. Finally, the idea of a Secretaries thread would be relevant to AEBBA Secretary's management, and Dave has set up loads of mechanisms for feeding information to the parties concerned. He holds a list of County Officials with their contact details, but they are held within the Staff Area in the interests of privacy/security. There is Nigel's quarterly which always includes the lists of forthcoming events, and we also have the calendar facility (click on the middle choice in the menu at the top of this screen to see dates of Opens, Finals Nights, AGMs etc). Several individual leagues also run their own websites which keep the discerning player well informed of all things bar billiards, and perhaps Portsmouth ought to think of running one too ! (Someone like Kady would be more than capable). We do acknowledge that not all the information that should filter down to the various levels of the game does so. County needs to inform individual Leagues, and League Secretaries need to pass news on to their constituent teams, which sadly isn't always the case. Here is where the real use of the Forum comes into play: we can't force everyone to read everything, but anyone who seeks out the information they want can usually find it on here ! tommo |
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Aug 1, 2012 21:02:27 GMT
No doubt the Moderators will be monitoring this change.
From my perspective logging on is not a problem.
However it will be a chore to some.
For instance I have been looking out for a match report for last evenings Summer league matches.
Normally I would not log on to view these.
Now I have to log in and out every time I feel like checking if they are up or not yet.
I know of some Guernsey players who are not bothered about becoming members, but appreciate the occasional look at the site with results, competition dates and banter.
If the Moderators decision stays to make it a members only board, it could hopefully attract new members.
However those who have never bothered to register will probably never join, so we will loose them unless we can educate them.
Tough call, and I hope the stats will be looked at and honestly reported on after say, a trial 3 month period.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2012 21:35:21 GMT
Just to explain the Members Only aspect which is not just Sav's requirement, it's a Staff majority view.
I know clubs which require a subscription for membership. Our 'service' is completely free and many members use us but can't be bothered to log in.
Most websites (eg Aviva, Philips Staff Shop, Take A Break Magazinw, British Telecom, Shell etc) require the minimum of a Username and Password for access. It's not much to ask, if you think about it.
tommo
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 2, 2012 7:33:41 GMT
Quick comment on Norman's post, no change has been made yet so why the comment on having to log on now? we are not yet members only in the league sections, that is September 1st. If logging on appears a problem then tick the 'remain logged on' box and you will not have to do so.
Just to make it clear from my own persepctive that I am not driving this (whimp answer I know but it's fact), however I support the staff decision and will implement it.
The Channel Islands will probably be set-up as a board equal in rank and alongside the county members, thus within the members section (it is not now!!) and away from the rather odd position it's in now. One we missed in the reorg that needs fine tuning.
Sav (I will be tied up with other matters for the next few days)
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Aug 2, 2012 7:52:42 GMT
Quick comment on Norman's post, no change has been made yet so why the comment on having to log on now? we are not yet members only in the league sections, that is September 1st. If logging on appears a problem then tick the 'remain logged on' box and you will not have to do so. I am just getting into the habit of logging on, to practice for when it becomes for real. Like I have said, not a problem, but I am sure my usual viewing of this site is like a lot of Bar Billiards players, and they do not log on every time. Perhaps this explains why the Moderators think that only 10% of the viewers of this site are actually members ? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2012 8:07:15 GMT
Whilst on the subject of stats, 25% of our members have yet to make a single post on here !
(Not having a go at you Stormin' - good to see someone taking an interest !)
For anyone uncomfortable about 'remaining logged on' there is also the factor that most browsers allow the facility of remembering your password from the last time. So logging on and off can be quite a slick operation once you're into the swing of it.
tommo
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Aug 2, 2012 8:34:13 GMT
Hi Clive
no I do not think anyone is having a go at me ???
I expect a lot of people are on holiday at the moment so the true implications and reaction of members will only come to light in September when the changes are made.
Have the Moderators considered producing a simple printable form to Advertise the site, and mention the basics, something that people such as myself can print out and give to players that are not members ?
It would be an opportune time to do such a thing ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2012 9:43:55 GMT
Have the Moderators considered producing a simple printable form to Advertise the site, and mention the basics, something that people such as myself can print out and give to players that are not members ? It would be an opportune time to do such a thing ;D Funny you should say that, Stormin'. A week ago one of our intrepid team came up with that very idea of an A4 sheet advertising our wares, and is probably working on the design as we speak. :o I agree that it's a great idea. tommo |
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Aug 2, 2012 11:04:19 GMT
Have the Moderators considered producing a simple printable form to Advertise the site, and mention the basics, something that people such as myself can print out and give to players that are not members ? It would be an opportune time to do such a thing ;D Funny you should say that, Stormin'. A week ago one of our intrepid team came up with that very idea of an A4 sheet advertising our wares, and is probably working on the design as we speak. :o I agree that it's a great idea. tommo Great minds think alike.... However if you wanted to run a draft past me as a non Moderator and for an ordinary member's opinion and point of view, I would be more than happy to give you my impression of the wording. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2012 11:10:52 GMT
Great minds think alike.... However if you wanted to run a draft past me as a non Moderator and for an ordinary member's opinion and point of view, I would be more than happy to give you my impression of the wording. Thanks Stormin', I am sure you will be taken up on that offer. Regards, tommo |
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Post by barbelman on Aug 3, 2012 10:00:31 GMT
Funny you should say that, Stormin'. A week ago one of our intrepid team came up with that very idea of an A4 sheet advertising our wares, and is probably working on the design as we speak. :o I agree that it's a great idea. tommo Great minds think alike.... However if you wanted to run a draft past me as a non Moderator and for an ordinary member's opinion and point of view, I would be more than happy to give you my impression of the wording. I think that's an excellent idea ;D A poster to put up at Opens and other events and some little brochures with more detail and a 'how to do it' guide on is not beyond the bounds of practicality. Tony |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 9:46:23 GMT
From the centre!! 1) An announcement was made and a thread for comment on the members only move was started on 26th July and since then only Chrissie Newson and Stormin have bothered to comment, hardly an indication for staff to think they had made the wrong decision, yet suddenly we have mayhem. Just to 'bump' this thread, as the one to which Sav was referring... |
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 1, 2012 16:35:28 GMT
Apologies (If needed) to Chris Saville and all the other Staff Members if the term Mod fathers caused offence.
It was a phrase I have picked up from another forum I used to belong to, and was meant as an affectionate and respectful term. A cross between a Moderator and a Father. A Moderator, also as a Father figure, and I respected my late Father, as most people who have fathers do also, I guess.
Also may I say that I accept Dave Ingram's and Chris Saville's explanations that a recent high profile dispute om the Forum had nothing to do with the decision re members only and will have to go down in the History of Bar Billiards as an unfortunate close coincidence.
Some forums I belong to are, or have business follow-ons, and I can understand why they are strictly members only.
Only this week I was researching a piece of silver and discovered a website dedicated to this particular Silversmith.
I was unable to link up and ask questions on this website, without becoming a member, by giving my name, email and creating yet another password.
As I was likely to only use this website once, I was reluctant to give my details and create another password to have to remember. If it was not members only I would have joined, and simply found out the information I required.
Yes the Moderators and staff members have the control and future of this site is in their hands.
However please do not view what are genuinely intended as constructive comments as criticisms.
Is is without doubt a momentous decision, and the consequences could be for the good of the site in the long term.
However it is not unusual for the ordinary members to have a say in such decisions, so I applaud a recent rethink.
Many people may have missed the original thread or not considered the consequences.
A Facebook style clear out of many members who may have just logged on once or twice, would reduce the % of non participating members.
I often look at the latest posts without logging on as I do not wish to post anything.
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Post by bigtj on Sept 1, 2012 20:19:54 GMT
As I would expect a good view of things and would not expect offence to be taken, although some will think the term derogatory if they did not know the origin of the word.
Agree that healthy debate is good for the future and hopefully we will see views from all areas, and a good cross section of members. In an ideal world we would have input from all members on some of the forum points, but a lot of people I am sure are just happy to look in and see what is going on.
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Post by iang on Sept 2, 2012 8:22:14 GMT
The Forum staff have discussed this a lot recently & the majority have taken the decission to adopt the very common principle of allowing non members to view all sections of the forum but if you wish to post you will need to be a member & log in.
This has been decided by the staff & not just the Directors
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2012 22:16:08 GMT
An announcement was made and a thread for comment on the members only move was started on 26th July and since then only Chrissie Newson and Stormin have bothered to comment. Thread bumped again, as there have been no comments for 7 days. My theory is that such an important topic deserves more prominence: hiding it under "Help and Technical Support" is no good - it will soon become lost once the 'view last 100 posts' fills up without it. ::) Moderator action please ! ;D |
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Post by Sparky on Sept 9, 2012 15:18:15 GMT
An announcement was made and a thread for comment on the members only move was started on 26th July and since then only Chrissie Newson and Stormin have bothered to comment. Thread bumped again, as there have been no comments for 7 days. My theory is that such an important topic deserves more prominence: hiding it under "Help and Technical Support" is no good - it will soon become lost once the 'view last 100 posts' fills up without it. ::) Moderator action please ! ;D I understand your concern Tommo, and have made it a 'Sticky' but that doesn't really answer your request but I cannot see another section that is better suited, as things stand. Furthermore we cannot force members to post their opinions and, if they do not, then it will drop down the last 100 posts anyway, just as you predict. If you have an idea for resolving this conundrum then please email or PM me, or Sav, and we'll treat it with the respect deserved from your good self. Graham |
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 9, 2012 16:33:08 GMT
This Forum is one of several I belong to, however pressures of work, family life etc. restrict the amount of time each individual can dedicate to such sites, and on the Internet in General.
With the popularity of Facebook and Twitter, would it be worth investigating or considering having a twitter feed on the Forum ?
There is nothing out there that could prevent someone opening a General Bar Billiards twitter account, which might take members away from the Bar Billiards Proboards Forum.
I can only emphasize again that I discover many "member only" forums, during my research into antiques. One can only join so many of these, and I am always reluctant to join just to ask one question, or research a particular piece. I usually find my information another way.
I have often seen posts where a "Guest" has logged on to this site ask about the rules or someone has a table to sell or ask about. These inquiries are always answered politely and would encourage an outsider to inquire more and perhaps join one day or pass on to family and friends the fact that those guys were so helpful.
My biggest fear is that this Forum will become a clicky club with no new members joining, unless we have a bigger push for membership before becoming members only.
Yes you guys own the site and us mere mortals do not contribute towards its running or put anything back in I know.
However the game is full of many characters with hugely diverse skills, both on and off the tables. We all have our opinions and sorry if they are not flavour of the month at the moment.
I am a huge fan of one man one vote, and because ordinary members did not get a chance to say yeah or nay on this "decision" I feel as though we have a plausible reason to be asking this question - Why? now.
Yes we have heard that "we are not seeing the bigger picture".
But I am open to listening and hearing what the bigger picture is ?
I was not amused to have a PM recently from a Moderator saying "Be Careful Norman", after commenting on an issue, which was not intending to be controversial or offensive to any particular person or persons.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 21:43:44 GMT
If you have an idea for resolving this conundrum then please email or PM me, or Sav, and we'll treat it with the respect deserved from your good self. Graham Thanks Graham, sorry for the apparent brutality of my message but it had to be said. The whole future well being of the Forum is at stake here. Am PM-ing you with a slight suggestion. Regards, tommo |
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Post by Q on Sept 9, 2012 23:10:43 GMT
I was not amused to have a PM recently from a Moderator saying "Be Careful Norman", after commenting on an issue, which was not intending to be controversial or offensive to any particular person or persons. OK Norman, hands up, I was that moderator, but PLEASE stop misquoting and taking things out of context, the PM was a lighthearted warning that you were being drawn into something that you had only seen one side of, the actual comment was Note the smiley, if you are that sensitive then in future I will let you jump in feet first, your comment wasn't controversial but then neither was my PM a warning, oh and it was over 2 months ago, not recently. Bernie |
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Post by bigtj on Sept 10, 2012 16:32:42 GMT
I do feel all members should be heard but as with a lot of things only a small minority take an active view, or if they do have an opinion do not put it on the forum.
Those who do post in the general have very good views and are objective, there is a very good point made by Norman with reference to answering questions from non - members especially about tables, rules and these are answered, it would be a shame to loose that.
Also it is a shame some members are feeling that they do not wish to post as they are concerned of upsetting people, but surely we want open discussion and as long as it does not get personal or out of hand there should be no reasons people feel pressured out of commenting.
I now know the different pressures and sometimes abuse the directors and moderators have experienced and again this is totally out of order towards people who do this voluntarily and without much appreciation. I am only saying this as there is always two sides to an agruement, and sometimes those who run forums do have to take actions that will upset some, and also cause the officers concern as they do not want to have to be in the position of censoring anyone.
This thread is very important and I believe we do need more peoples opinions to get an objective view.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 16:51:21 GMT
All comments by TJ there endorsed by moi. ;D ;D ;D there is a very good point made by Norman with reference to answering questions from non - members especially about tables, rules and these are answered, it would be a shame to loose that. Surely the facility for non-members to post would be restored as a matter of course - as part of the 'deal' for going members-only ? |
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Post by Colemanator on Sept 10, 2012 17:24:02 GMT
All comments by TJ there endorsed by moi. ;D ;D ;D there is a very good point made by Norman with reference to answering questions from non - members especially about tables, rules and these are answered, it would be a shame to loose that. Surely the facility for non-members to post would be restored as a matter of course - as part of the 'deal' for going members-only ? I do not know of any forum which i use as a member, what has a facility, which allows non members to post? What 'deal' do you refer to Clive? ian 8-) :) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 18:10:55 GMT
What 'deal' do you refer to Clive? ian 8-) :) Despite no longer being allowed 'behind closed doors' I can still read between the lines, Colemanator. ;D I saw the removal of the 'non-members can post' facility as a face-saving measure, when Staff were forced into a U-turn over going "members only" on 1st September. ;) :-* |
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 10, 2012 18:39:09 GMT
I was not amused to have a PM recently from a Moderator saying "Be Careful Norman", after commenting on an issue, which was not intending to be controversial or offensive to any particular person or persons.
[/quote]
OK Norman, hands up, I was that moderator, but PLEASE stop misquoting and taking things out of context, the PM was a lighthearted warning that you were being drawn into something that you had only seen one side of, the actual comment was Note the smiley, if you are that sensitive then in future I will let you jump in feet first, your comment wasn't controversial but then neither was my PM a warning, oh and it was over 2 months ago, not recently.
Bernie[/quote]
So it was a friendly warning, despite hiding behind a smiley ???
Perhaps a case of do as we say, not as we do ;D
Just as you are entitled to your opinions so am I to mine, and it is hardly surprising some people are reluctant to post more on this Members Only thread/debate with the threat of being hit by friendly warnings via PM Bernie.
Also for fear of upsetting the hard working team which we all acknowledge as superhuman and respect ;D ;D
So no more thoughts of giving it all up please guys.
We will get through this together and move on whatever the outcome.
We love you all really :-*
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 11, 2012 6:57:19 GMT
Whilst on the subject of stats, 25% of our members have yet to make a single post on here ! tommo Perhaps if the Moderators/Staff have a good look at the so called "members" lists, they will realise that a vast majority are "ghost" members and may have been put on this site by a person or persons unknown. I have been looking at names and birthdays for the past few weeks, and there are many registered who have never posted. For instance today - Fact - a female aged 58 never posted - email address hidden, name Woody ;D ;D ;D Does this person exist ???? If a Facebook type clearout of unwanted friends/members takes place, perhaps the Moderators will have a decent perspective of % 0f viewers versus actual members. Also many people have stated - Fact - that they look at the site many times during the day, but can not log on whilst at work. This will affect any % analysis of viewers of the site not being members also. . So any decisions re a change to "members only" must not be based on the two above mentioned Facts alone. |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 11, 2012 8:00:00 GMT
Sorry Norm but you've missed the bulls-eye by a country mile.
I can identify every member who has joined this forum since my leadership and almost all others. That is just part of the work the staff quietly do to make this as safe and pleasant place to visit as is possible. Only 50% of our members have made ten posts so very many are content to be a member and simply visit.
Woody, for instance, runs a pub which you might even guess the name of.
That is why the ataff see the bigger picture and why they will make the decisions on how this forum is run.
I have also encouraged 'quiet words' from staff to members as a proactive means to try and prevent situations potentially going ballistic as is all too easy with the written word. In the eight years of the forum's existence we have enforced only three bans over incidents and one of those was in protecting you!!
Sav
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