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Post by Sparky on Sept 11, 2012 8:08:50 GMT
I am glad you replied first Sav as the reply I was compiling was much longer and stronger........not at all happy Norman >:(
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 8:11:37 GMT
Hi Stormin'
I was not really planning to have a full say on this one until after more have contributed to the discussion, but as you have homed in on a statistic of mine, I will try and answer that point alone.
Look at the statistics at the bottom of the welcome page (they are no secret, and show a typical spread): At present they show:
Active users in the last 24 hours: 8 Staff Members, 44 Members, 425 Guests
The Staff members are listed (shown in yellow or green) and the members' names too. So what of 425 guests?
Yes, we know of one or two instances where people do a quick log on at work and don't bother to sign in properly for fear of the boss looking over their shoulder, but you can't tell me that the 425 guests mentioned represent those same 44 Members looking in incognito, those people don't look like shrinking violets to me !
With maybe a couple of exceptions, the 425 guests comprise either: a) some of the 100 members who have joined but never used their account properly, or b) viewers from all over the world (we know this as we get membership applications from China, the USA, Australia to name but a few), or c) players seeking information but who choose to remain outside the Forum for personal reasons.
You suggest a "Facebook type clearout" of category a) the "shrinking violets" but these are the very people we would like to protect rather than punish. They have already done the 'hard part' and taken out a membership, so to use their accounts properly it's just a case of a simple log-in (username + password). If either has been forgotten there's an automatic help mechanism built into ProBoards.
It's not a healthy situation having one moderator to every five active members. The Staff recognised this a while back and were simply attempting to redress the balance - more active members and, by proportion, fewer guests who do not contribute anything to what is, after all, a Forum (not purely an information website).
Regards,
tommo
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Post by bigtj on Sept 11, 2012 17:18:06 GMT
Wise words Clive, and know you do a lot of statistic checking so interesting to see the facts and figures.
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Post by JB on Sept 11, 2012 18:38:56 GMT
If I look at the website without logging in am I one of those guests? I sometimes look at the pro boards (especially when running a competition like Sussex Interleague or Sussex Open) quite a few times a day so just me could be 10 of those guests. I also am one of those members that look and read a lot on the boards but only ever log in if I want to post like many others I'm sure. I'm not sure if this is what happens but if it is am I one of those members who don't use their account properly?
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 11, 2012 18:50:02 GMT
I am glad you replied first Sav as the reply I was compiling was much longer and stronger........not at all happy Norman >:( You ask for comments, then chastise those who post ??? As Chrissy said deal with it, and not with threats please ;D Set an example and please keep this friendly with open debate.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 18:55:42 GMT
I also am one of those members that look and read a lot on the boards but only ever log in if I want to post like many others I'm sure. I'm not sure if this is what happens but if it is am I one of those members who don't use their account properly? Yeh, Margo was another - until I gave her a slap! LOL ;D
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Post by Chunky Monkey on Sept 11, 2012 20:07:44 GMT
If I look at the website without logging in am I one of those guests? I sometimes look at the pro boards (especially when running a competition like Sussex Interleague or Sussex Open) quite a few times a day so just me could be 10 of those guests. I also am one of those members that look and read a lot on the boards but only ever log in if I want to post like many others I'm sure. I'm not sure if this is what happens but if it is am I one of those members who don't use their account properly? Me too ::)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 21:16:05 GMT
And even me too! But no way are we going to add up to 425.
When I looked in a couple of hours earlier, there were 11 guests viewing in from Northants. These are probably the guys that used to use the Forum a lot and with whom we used to have so much fun (Kipling Awards etc).
I would imagine that these days they choose to use Facebook instead (has a lot to answer for).
Where's the fun in the Forum these days ? Apart from a recent Worthing thread when there was a bit of Charles Dickens banter going back and forth, there hasn't been too much.
It's all got far too serious! :'( :'(
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 11, 2012 21:45:50 GMT
If I look at the website without logging in am I one of those guests? I sometimes look at the pro boards (especially when running a competition like Sussex Interleague or Sussex Open) quite a few times a day so just me could be 10 of those guests. I also am one of those members that look and read a lot on the boards but only ever log in if I want to post like many others I'm sure. I'm not sure if this is what happens but if it is am I one of those members who don't use their account properly? Guests are counted by IP address so you will only count as one guest no matter how many times you log in each day provided it is from the same place or via the same dongle. Sav
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Post by JB on Sept 11, 2012 21:50:19 GMT
So I look at work, then at home (on different devices) and sometimes from th pub. Would that then be 3 guests? Don't have a dongle
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 11, 2012 21:53:40 GMT
So I look at work, then at home (on different devices) and sometimes from th pub. Would that then be 3 guests? Don't have a dongle Yup, possibly more after a few bacardis ;D ;D SAV
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 21:59:29 GMT
I have a dongle but seem to be using it less and less these days. :'( :'(
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ruby
Full Forum Member
Posts: 92
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Post by ruby on Sept 11, 2012 22:51:03 GMT
hi this is my first post and could be my last if my views offend i only became a member because the thought of losing the invalueable information that the forum provides would be lost to me . I can assure the moderators that many of the guests looking in want the information but do not wish to post ,many of the players i talk to discuss the latest topics including this one ,but most wont join because human nature kicks in and they rebel at being forced into this situation .Ok this is a forum and the discussions and banter are always entertaining ,but most of the guests like me only use it for local results and league tables. As the banner at the top says The last best hope of promoting our game, please keep it that way and appeal to all the bar billiards world.
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Post by barbelman on Sept 12, 2012 7:09:42 GMT
Thank you for your thoughts Arthur and welcome to the Forum.
Tony
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Post by barbelman on Sept 12, 2012 7:34:43 GMT
With maybe a couple of exceptions, the 425 guests comprise either: a) some of the 100 members who have joined but never used their account properly, or b) viewers from all over the world (we know this as we get membership applications from China, the USA, Australia to name but a few), or c) players seeking information but who choose to remain outside the Forum for personal reasons. Tommo I would estimate that a conservative 80% of those 'guests' are search engines like Google, Bing etc. doing their data gathering thing.... Tony
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 8:15:28 GMT
Tommo I would estimate that a conservative 80% of those 'guests' are search engines like Google, Bing etc. doing their data gathering thing.... Tony LOL ;D You have a good point there Tony, but maybe you are being too conservative. ;) I am equally convinced that we have a lot of incognito viewers from the likes of Northants and Surrey, who used to be actively involved but choose not to these days, now that they have Facebook. I reckon 70%.
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 12, 2012 9:35:20 GMT
Sorry Norm but you've missed the bulls-eye by a country mile. I can identify every member who has joined this forum since my leadership and almost all others. That is just part of the work the staff quietly do to make this as safe and pleasant place to visit as is possible. Only 50% of our members have made ten posts so very many are content to be a member and simply visit. Woody, for instance, runs a pub which you might even guess the name of. Sav One Birthday today - Stormyseas9rocks. Another member never posted ??? Let me guess - He is a Lighthouse Keeper on Les Casquets reef off Alderney. Hey Tommo - this could make for an interesting quiz in the future. Guess the location from the User Name ;D
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 12, 2012 10:00:05 GMT
One Birthday today - Stormyseas9rocks. Another member never posted ??? Let me guess - He is a Lighthouse Keeper on Les Casquets reef off Alderney. An enquiring member who wanted to join a bar billiards league. I advised him of his nearest leagues and put him in contact with two secretaries. Another thing the staff quietly do for the efficiency of the forum. Hey Tommo - this could make for an interesting quiz in the future. Guess the location from the User Name ;D That would be breaching confidentiality and land you and the forum in it over data protection. Sav
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 12, 2012 10:05:47 GMT
Tommo I would estimate that a conservative 80% of those 'guests' are search engines like Google, Bing etc. doing their data gathering thing.... Tony LOL ;D You have a good point there Tony, but maybe you are being too conservative. ;) I am equally convinced that we have a lot of incognito viewers from the likes of Northants and Surrey, who used to be actively involved but choose not to these days, now that they have Facebook. I reckon 70%. Last time I checked it appeared to be about 25% with consecutive IP addresses symptomatic of search engines. Sav.
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Post by milhouse on Sept 12, 2012 10:15:32 GMT
Just one thing on the members and usernames. Can you not insist that on your user profile, you have to have your name so others can see who the people actually are?
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Post by barbelman on Sept 12, 2012 10:19:10 GMT
LOL ;D You have a good point there Tony, but maybe you are being too conservative. ;) I am equally convinced that we have a lot of incognito viewers from the likes of Northants and Surrey, who used to be actively involved but choose not to these days, now that they have Facebook. I reckon 70%. Last time I checked it appeared to be about 25% with consecutive IP addresses symptomatic of search engines. Sav. I did about a hundred this morning (yeah I know ???) and about 90% were Google, Microsoft, Chinese search engines and Soft Logic Technologies but it may have not been a typical night. Tony
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 12, 2012 10:36:27 GMT
One Birthday today - Stormyseas9rocks. Another member never posted ??? Let me guess - He is a Lighthouse Keeper on Les Casquets reef off Alderney. An enquiring member who wanted to join a bar billiards league. I advised him of his nearest leagues and put him in contact with two secretaries. Another thing the staff quietly do for the efficiency of the forum. Hey Tommo - this could make for an interesting quiz in the future. Guess the location from the User Name ;D That would be breaching confidentiality and land you and the forum in it over data protection. Sav Was only joking hence the ;D It was you who said guess the pub from the user name :-X
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2012 13:02:35 GMT
I did about a hundred this morning (yeah I know ???) and about 90% were Google, Microsoft, Chinese search engines and Soft Logic Technologies but it may have not been a typical night. Tony I think the term is "spidering" and the biggest instance occurred here: "Most users online was 302, May 10, 2008, 9:46am" - Obviously not all bar billiards people ! I don't reckon we've ever had more than 50 people on-line at the same time since the Forum has been in existence, so the stats shouldn't be too difficult to work out. :-/
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Post by davejones on Sept 12, 2012 19:11:57 GMT
If I look at the website without logging in am I one of those guests? I sometimes look at the pro boards (especially when running a competition like Sussex Interleague or Sussex Open) quite a few times a day so just me could be 10 of those guests. I also am one of those members that look and read a lot on the boards but only ever log in if I want to post like many others I'm sure. I'm not sure if this is what happens but if it is am I one of those members who don't use their account properly? And me
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Post by Chris on Sept 12, 2012 23:01:13 GMT
This is a debate, a chat, a collection of personal views.
Forum staff will at times feel like this is an attack. I truly believe that no member would want a member of the forum staff to feel that they are under attack. Yes guys you will get the odd person !! but hey lets look at the percentage figures compared to the majority of your valued members who totally support you including me.
Debates give rise to opinions that are not agreed upon as they are personal opinions. Some people will have the skills and understanding to put their views in a way that is non-threatening and balanced, some won't. It will depend on the time of day they write, their mood at the time and many other internal/external factors. This includes all members and the forum staff and directors.
Healthy professional debate is what the forum needs to promote the sport
If a debate is started, then all have the right of reply. There may be general attacks re systems but as long as it is not at an individual, it is healthy debate.
I regret my previous post as it was totally not clear what I was trying to say, still probably isn't and probably should have put the above :-*
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Post by JB on Sept 12, 2012 23:35:10 GMT
Well said Chris When a debate starts (in general not just this one) people are asked to give their opinion. When they do this it seems to me that if a person doesn't agree with it and has a different opinion they seem to sometimes take it personally. I read things sometimes and wonder why people get so annoyed as its not a personal attack.
Do think it could put some people of posting their ideas. I have thought twice about posting sometimes as I feel my opinion could be looked at as being confrontational and might upset people when it's never personal.
As you say it can depend on the mood people are in when they post. It's late, I'm tired and so perhaps I shouldn't have posted.
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Post by Q on Sept 12, 2012 23:53:15 GMT
2 very good views, much appreciated
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Post by chellster on Sept 13, 2012 10:04:44 GMT
Hi all
Chris and Jean I couldn't agree more. If everyone had the same opinions on everything we would live in a very boring world!!!!! The moderators job is not an easy one and respect every one of u for doing it but these opinions are not personal to you - they are just opinions. I understand that there have been people who have said things they shouldn't myself included!!! But it was never meant against a moderator just. Point of view. I had my dear dads funeral Tuesday and trust me guys life is just too short!!!!! (and he lived til 101). Bar billiards is all about great people playing the game they love - let's not lose sight if this xxxxxx
Chelle xxxxx
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2012 11:19:58 GMT
As one who was a Staff Member until very recently - "gamekeeper turned poacher" if you like - I can offer a balanced view here having had experience from both standpoints.
Firstly I would say (and Staff won't thank me for it) that I think there have been occasions when a good 'heated debate' had got going and may have been spoiled by a bit of, shall we say, over-zealous moderation.
Having said that, not all 'mods' are on-line at the same time, and sometimes when something kicks off it is necessary to act on impulse, and this is with the prior backing of the team. Anything really contentious is fully discussed by the whole team, and a Staff decision reached.
But being a mod is not just about censoring other peoples' posts, and many people do not seem to realise that. Much, much more work goes on behind the scenes. Click on 'members' in the top menu of this screen and select 'view top posters' which the membership in decreasing order of postings made - 14 pages worth of members in all, with 30 on each page.
All the people on page 11 onwards (102 in all) have yet to contribute any message on the Forum - yet we suspect that many of them view in regularly as guests. Each of those 102 have gone through the process of having their membership application vetted and approved - not necessarily a 'given' as there are quite a few refused as inappropriate to a bar billiards forum. (And there might be many out there like that viewing in that we don't know about!) The vetting process takes about half an hour in email exchanges for an easy one, so that 102 who don't use their accounts represents at least 51 hours of wasted moderators' time which is frustrating to say the least.
A further point I would make is that it seems to me that Staff opinions are not being given the respect due: The team has been hand-picked for their experience and management skills. It is human nature to be resistant to change, but if Chris, with the backing of the moderating team, feels that he wants to move forward in the interests of Forum members, then we should give more respect for their judgement and not try to hold them back from what they are trying to achieve.
Members - do not take any of this personally, you are the salt of the earth and the very ones in the interests of whom these decisions are being formulated if you did but know it. ;)
tommo
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Post by JB on Sept 13, 2012 13:24:41 GMT
Get your point tommo but surely members opinions are also sometimes not given the respect due and I hate to say it but sometimes by "over-zealous" moderation".
I also think that regards to respecting judgement that all members do. I just feel if its regarding a particular league then a pm or e-mail to someone (Im sure the moderators know who to contact in a league to get things done) outlining the changes they were thinking of making would be appreciated. They would then be able to give their opinion before rather than the changes being made and sometimes causing controversy.
I sometimes have to read a thread 3 or 4 times to try to understand what a member has said wrong that has caused so much ill-feeling. There was one instance when I thought a moderator had been out of order with a comment they made and rather than say it on here in public and cause WW3 i sent a pm. I was told it would be looked into after another matter had been dealt with. Was it? I dont know as I never received an answer.
Perhaps part of the problem is that the members don't know what goes on behind the scenes (Im not saying they should) apart from a lot of work done by individuals in their own time. I admire the work people do to keep this forum going and this post is not in any way having a go at any of them. Just trying to give my opinion as to why there seems to be more and more problems on here lately.
This also isn't related to anything thats happened on this particular thread but a general view.
This thread has now got way off topic so I will say no more. Except
OPINIONS - Everyones entitled to their own RESPECT - Is a two way thing COMMUNICATION - A little goes a long way
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