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Post by barbelman on Jul 3, 2019 10:38:57 GMT
There is no reason they should not be any colour you want! I still think you will need a higher resolution print to get rid of the ridges on the receiving surface.... Tony These are at the highest resolution capability of the 3D printer. We need to find out if a slightly rough surface makes any difference. Whether you can get a glossier finish with other materials I do not know. They are the highest PRACTICAL resolution of the printer used methinks..... |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 3, 2019 14:19:18 GMT
Jon said they were printed at the highest resolution the machine was capable of.
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Post by daveuk1 on Jul 3, 2019 17:19:09 GMT
Me sees a little project for my son and his carbon fibre work. I'm sure he can come up with something
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taffy
Distinguished Member
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Post by taffy on Jul 4, 2019 8:49:42 GMT
the resolution of the photo makes it clear they haven't quite reached gloss finish, but a piece of P1500 and keeping the temp down would probably see a nice "Gloss" finish. They look great in green though!!!
Taffy
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Post by The Bullet on Jul 8, 2019 19:06:52 GMT
Hi Sav,
Which 3 D printer was used for the rings, I'm working on a couple of projects with Robert and a decent 3 D printer would help.
Thanks, Bob
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 9, 2019 7:53:22 GMT
Don't know Bob but will try to find out. The CAD file, once perfected, should be useable anywhere.
Took a table out of a pub last evening (second table in pub) so have a spare slate I can try the rings in and see how they fit and if they survive tapping.
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Post by The Bullet on Jul 9, 2019 18:54:38 GMT
Thanks Sav
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 16, 2019 14:33:44 GMT
Stripped the spare slate down but rejected it as being too poor to be a fair test on the new rings, Will strip another down
Oh for some new slates!
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 17, 2019 11:01:21 GMT
Checked the records, which I should have done first, and that slate was off K.P.'s old table that I inherited many years ago. I recorded that it was in a right state then! Inside square top lips of the holes have been sanded round, presumably to aid ball drop (Taffy have you had a go at this one), so cannot use that slate as a test bed without building the lips back square. Next slate is one I got from Jersey, so long since it's been recovered that the cloth is held in place by tacks, not staples! has Jersey rings which are proving somewhat reluctant to extract from their holes. Only visible date on the slate is 29/10/1951  Needs a bit of screwing and gluing on the frame so that will slow things down somewhat. |
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taffy
Distinguished Member
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Post by taffy on Jul 18, 2019 10:08:19 GMT
Hi Sav
well to square the hole I use isopon's legendary P38 body filler but in truth, it is exactly the same stuff as 'wood filler'. A nice piece of 'dry' P80, then wet 'n dry P240 used dry on a small piece of plained baton is suffice.
If you're asking if I chamfered the edges, no i didn't not how i think you mean anyway, i just took the sharp lip off so the shamfer was like 0.5mm down the hole and the cloth was square to the ring.
difference is, the ring didn't act as a guillotine after this. I am happily playing at home on a cloth with white body filler showing through on one hole. the cloth is ruined and I need to fit another. all because of that barbed edge the scarlet rings have about 12mm down the sides.
get rid of that nasty barb (using a lathe and holding them gently) and the rings now work a treat. alas, the 'chopping' happened after the fresh slate was done and I had no technical input on how tight is tight.
If drilling the holes on another fresh slate i now have the correct ID for the slate for the rings to be a nice tight, tap fit. It's in my thread "A.N.Other table - Quiet Please!"
Taffy
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 18, 2019 11:42:09 GMT
Sounds like what you've got is a bit big for what you're trying to stick it in!  Off topic for pocket rings but this ancient slate I am trying to prepare for the new rings is certainly different, the cloth is tacked to the plywood insert at the front of the table, not the slate frame. Never seen that before. |
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Jul 18, 2019 19:32:54 GMT
The table is now just about finished, i've had major trouble with the cloth being chopped off by the rings as they were tapped in. because the slate had to be drilled by myself first to 61mm which came out at around 61.3mm. I then bought another cutter at 62mm and managed to just locate the cutter inside each hole and take them out to 62.4mm. that is what they cut at but that is not the whole story, for the first 3-5mm the holes are more like 62.7 and then come back to 62.1mm. So i bought some rotary flapper wheels at P40 grit and 80mm in diameter. this had to be screwed into the hole but the work it did was over in 15 seconds! it was the business! the holes are now around 62.6-62.8mm internally and the rings a really good tight fit. the rings, the fire red ones (saffron in colour) have a sharp edge and managed to chop the cloth off in some holes. I then removed the rings, had the sharp lip (they all seem to have them) machined off and this time they slide in and then needed a good tap. so with a modern cloth about 62.6-62.8mm seems good - and get rid of that sharp edge halfway down! Cheers Taffy certainly the middle lip was sharper than the top rim/lip and did the damage. because the modern cloth was I thought a little thinner I, I made a small allowance and bored the new holes about 0.3mm smaller but that was my downfall. faced with either unstapling and pulling off the new cloth back off with its holes slashed and re-honing the holes I decided to take that middle barb off and it worked a treat but the damage was done on the initial install. I hope the hole ID helps. Taffy |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 18, 2019 20:46:08 GMT
What rings are you using Taffy?
I ask because all traditional rings needed rubbing down as they were made too large.
Th 3D rings we are working on cater for this fault.
Yours is a bit difficult to comment on as you've drilled your own holes. However rings are 62mm OD so the holes are going to need to be close on 63mm. The rings should tap in and not needing to be hit hard enough to guillotine the cloth!
The rings should just fit loosely into the holes without the cloth. I have never heard of your problem except when recoverers have used rings which are too large for the holes.
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Jul 20, 2019 18:28:37 GMT
 This is before I had them machined...how they came. Taffy |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jul 20, 2019 19:26:56 GMT
Yup, not pucka rings Taffy, look-a-like jobbies. I've got some of those but would not use them in a table unless I absolutely had to.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 17, 2019 11:38:30 GMT
Been held up with the first use of the new rings, not helped by damaging my hand cutting down a tree which pivoted on a branch and bit me.
Fit to start using it again now things are clean and healing, punching a tree is not the most sterile of things to do!
Checked the second slate and can see someone has had a go at the holes on this one too so not going to use it as a test for the new rings as not bog standard.
Cloth comes off slate number three this afternoon! better be right, don't have any more spares!
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 19, 2019 17:10:21 GMT
Third slate cleaned off and I notice some unevenness to the holes on this one as well.
I've never looked this closely before must now wonder if they are all like it. New rings fit as well as the sanded originals.
Problem is it brings into play another dimension that has not been considered and that is how much give there is in the plastic to accommodate any unevenness.
Only one way to find out, but I am going to play safe and very carefully run a flap wheel in the bores. I've tried with an exact fit grinding wheel and it bounces so too risky.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 5, 2019 10:36:20 GMT
Started to recover slate and ripped the cloth pulling it too tight, first time I have ever done that! Removed cloth, just enough overlap to move rip far enough out from edge of slate (lucky!) and restapled it. New rings after lunch!!   |
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Post by barbelman on Sept 6, 2019 8:19:19 GMT
New rings after lunch!! And the outcome was....? |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 6, 2019 8:32:39 GMT
Started a quarter of an hour job on one of the classic BSA's that took all afternoon (between rest breaks) when I hit problems (AKA former bodge I had forgotten about).
Just back from doctors to start hip replacement ball rolling, will be taking a look at the slate shortly.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 6, 2019 9:25:55 GMT
Initial impressions are very good, tinged with a hint of caution. The holes on this slate had rough inner surfaces so I have gently eased then with a 60mm flap wheel, hopefully made very little difference to the diameter but will have eased off any high spots. Rings went in very well, if anything marginally looser than I would have liked but only very marginal they were still a tight fit. No problems tapping them in with the hardwood block, or final positioning with the screwdriver handle afterwards, rings survived fine. Balls drop more or less the same as a normal ring so the slightly rougher surface seems to make no difference. The slate will be going in my home table nest week for serious testing. I'll take some video of play. Thus far (largish picture for now, will condense it after a while.)  [edit] hundred hole was tighter so guess size is right |
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alanturner
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Saxophone is the only thing that gets blown , these days !
Posts: 238 
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Post by alanturner on Sept 6, 2019 12:28:08 GMT
Initial impressions are very good, tinged with a hint of caution. The holes on this slate had rough inner surfaces so I have gently eased then with a 60mm flap wheel, hopefully made very little difference to the diameter but will have eased off any high spots. Rings went in very well, if anything marginally looser than I would have liked but only very marginal they were still a tight fit. No problems tapping them in with the hardwood block, or final positioning with the screwdriver handle afterwards, rings survived fine. Balls drop more or less the same as a normal ring so the slightly rougher surface seems to make no difference. The slate will be going in my home table nest week for serious testing. I'll take some video of play. Thus far (largish picture for now, will condense it after a while [edit] hundred hole was tighter so guess size is right
They look Brilliant .............can you bring one to Sudbury ??
Alan |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 6, 2019 13:03:20 GMT
All nine rings in, played the frantic run and pour with the quick setting plaster.
Slate goes in start of next week.
Cannot find fault thus far, resting my hip now!
Alan, I can bring the prototypes up, and various English / Channel Isles / crap others for comparison, the first pukka set are now in the slate. The intention is that the cad design specification file for 3D printing will be available for all.
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Sept 6, 2019 14:12:12 GMT
Hi Sav
great job so far! I say if you want rings to look different to all before you and we are talking Green cloth or maybe a mouve/purple...then the obvious matching little colour would be I'd have thought; yellow!
seems like we are agreed though that the holes at just shy of 63mm
you said; ".....holes are going to need to be close on 63mm"
I'd said; ".....with a modern cloth about 62.6-62.8mm"
certainly for me, it felt like a nice firm drive and not going anywhere.
well done!
Taffy
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 7, 2019 13:03:20 GMT
 Ready to install, looks pretty near perfect to me. Quick bit of video Attachments:
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 10, 2019 23:03:11 GMT
Slate with 3D printed rings installed in the Red Cow table in Sandwich. They seem pretty close to the originals, possibly drop a touch quicker, time will tell. Close up of installed ring, will reduce image size when interest has passed. This is the best finish we can get from 3D printing at present without sanding, which I don't want to have to do as it's time and brings uncertainties. There is a slight graining to the surface, but, to me, it makes little difference in appearance and does not appear to affect play thus far. The white flecks are filler. Attachments:
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 19, 2019 11:34:45 GMT
First game played on the table between players of differing styles, what do you think?
I think the rings are pretty close to what we have. My only suspicion is that not many balls lip out as if the holes may be grabbing the balls a little to much.
Take a skim through the phases of the game and comments, good or bad, are welcome. However if we change the profile then we are not sure what effect that will have and have to reassess.
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alanturner
Full Forum Member
Saxophone is the only thing that gets blown , these days !
Posts: 238
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Post by alanturner on Sept 19, 2019 17:54:59 GMT
First game played on the table between players of differing styles, what do you think? I think the rings are pretty close to what we have. My only suspicion is that not many balls lip out as if the holes may be grabbing the balls a little to much. Take a skim through the phases of the game and comments, good or bad, are welcome. However if we change the profile then we are not sure what effect that will have and have to reassess. Rings are brilliant and work really well , if they need polishing inside which is questionable , Spun in a lathe with a little T-cut on a cloth would suffice .
The main question is availability and cost , by my thinking it would not be economic for individuals to set up for one set , but someone with the right equipment and materials making them at one location would be cost effective .
Alan...........Excellent project and effort Sav , well done ,
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Sept 20, 2019 13:12:14 GMT
they aren't rimming Sav which is a good sign. what is the actual hole diameter?
cheers
Taffy
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 24, 2019 8:29:31 GMT
Hole diameter was about 64.5mm taff, remember I had to carefully take the high spots off them.
League starts tonight with the first match in earnest on the Cow table.
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