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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 19, 2012 12:32:03 GMT
I have set up this board to help discuss and maintain the tournament tables. I will set up a thread for each table and report its condition as I refurbish them.
Tournament administrators please check this thread prior to tournaments and please report any problems you find.
You have a right to expect the best tables going when you play in national tournaments and there is currently no record of what happens to them.
This will give us a central record on the most important tables in the country and enable AEBBA to respond to patterns that develop or damage to any table.
Tables delivered by Dave Alder Saturday 11th August 2012, where would this game be nationally without him!!
Cloth arrived Thursday 16th August.
Sav
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 21, 2012 10:19:36 GMT
Stripping tables three and four this morning and not impressed by the number of different types of screws in the cushions.
Three different types of screws on both tables. Different lengths, widths and heads. It would make reassembling them all the more difficult if I did not have stocks of replacement screws that will hopefully replace all three types without pulling out.
Front board not attached under 'D' on one.
Sav
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Post by milko on Aug 21, 2012 14:26:26 GMT
Sav, I should think the AEBBA committee will hang a medal around your neck after you've finished - what a guy! 8-)
Anyway, it's a well done and thanks from me - if that means anything!
Keith
PS I can't wait to try some of them out at the Berk's Open next month but then I suppose it depends on how the tables are set up! ;D
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David.G
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Post by David.G on Aug 21, 2012 19:05:12 GMT
PS I can't wait to try some of them out at the Berk's Open next month but then I suppose it depends on how the tables are set up! ;D And there I was thinking that Sav was gonna set them up when he delivers the tables on the day ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by bigtj on Aug 21, 2012 19:39:27 GMT
yes a large thanks to Sav, looks to be quiet a job
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 21, 2012 22:08:14 GMT
PS I can't wait to try some of them out at the Berk's Open next month but then I suppose it depends on how the tables are set up! ;D And there I was thinking that Sav was gonna set them up when he delivers the tables on the day ;D ;D ;D Dave, Do you honestly think I'm going to let anyone else level this lot after all this work?? ;D ;D Cheers Keith, It's been hard work thus far and I've saved the worst one to last (cracked slate, busted ball return, right hand rear hinge bowloxed, that I have spotted so far) so I know how much time I have left!! Seriously it's Dave A. and AEBBA that you need to thank for leading the way and taking responsibility for the national tables. Sav |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 23, 2012 11:32:37 GMT
Would point out that, if you've been looking at the pictures, I don't normally work in such a mess, in fact it's drivung me bonkers as I cannot find things.
The reason is that this has happened at the wrong time for me as my old workshop (static caravan) was demolished last month to make way for a log cabin to be erected in September as a proper workshop. Thus my normally tidy racked tools are in piles in boxes all over the garage floor.
Sav
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Post by Q on Aug 23, 2012 12:05:19 GMT
Looks amazingly tidy to me Chris, I would love to have that sort of room, my garage was supposed to be my devoted workshop, now it divided in two, the back half is home to our Guinea pigs and boarders, the front half hold all my stuff plus the ride on mower, I have to get the mower out to even get in the garage, and of course that can only happen if the weather is good (Colin [the mower] isn't allowed to get wet) so I can only use my (half) workshop in the dry, when really I need to have it in the wet weather. Female logic ;) ???
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 23, 2012 12:36:14 GMT
My ride-on mower's been sat out in the open round the back of the garage for the last two weeks cos the garage is full of barbilliard tables!
Sav
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Post by milko on Aug 25, 2012 5:54:10 GMT
Is there a reason why the clocks on the tables are being changed (reduced) to less than 17min's ?
All this is doing is helping the player going first when it comes to the "Counties" which is only a single leg game.
I think around 18min's is a better table time.
Keith :(
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 25, 2012 7:27:28 GMT
They are not all being reduced Keith >:(, the shortest I have found is sixteen and a half which has been lengthened to seventeen, the longest eighteen and a half on one of the bought in tables!!
Seventeen was always the target time as far as I am aware and what I remember from playing them, Only the odd table went eighteen minutes and held up the schedules. It's difficult to keep to a two leg forty five minute schedule when the games are taking forty minutes or more to complete. Jersey have certainly run on sixteen minute tables for years.
Whatever Keith, all the clocks need to run the same time to be fair to players and tournament organisers. If seventeen is not long enough then the AEBBA committee need to discuss this immediately and give me a directive as it will hold up my progress. I'm at a position where tables one and two are on the trailer on their sides and three and four are ready to be loaded this morning. Once three and four are on the trailer also on their sides I will not be in a position to alter the clocks as i am not prepared to unload them again.
I cannot continue until tables three and four are out of the garage and will abandon the project for the long weekend, but must continue Tuesday as I will be getting short on time with another table with major problems to tackle.
If this is a concern then please contact Dave A. immediately and get an AEBBA committee virtual discussion going on table times.
Sav.
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Post by milko on Aug 25, 2012 12:00:18 GMT
Chris, I’m sorry if I’ve made you angry, I was only asking a question and giving my choice and point of view, isn’t that what this forums for ?
I certainly wouldn’t want to hold you up in getting the tables finished and remember that I was the first one to say how great a job you’re doing and how much I appreciate it.
So, by all means keep it to 17min’s and again I thank you for all your hard work.
Keith
PS It was also nice of you to use that word in your post that you know I hate!! ???
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 25, 2012 12:08:21 GMT
Keith,
No offence taken, you are right to query it.
I have conversed with 'God' this morning and will set the clocks to 17.15
What word was that ::) ::)??
Must rush, bars are about to drop.
Sav,
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Post by Chris_Sav on Aug 31, 2012 21:10:38 GMT
The recover of the first six tables is now finished and tables loaded on the trailer ready for Berks.
I feel I should point out that my remit was only to recover the tables, I was not expecting to find the amount of damage I have encountered.
I have fixed what I have spotted, but there may well be things I have missed such as balls getting stuck. I simply have not had time to go over six tables with a fine toothcombe. So if you find a problem please do not blame me!! I have done what I can in the time available.
AEBBA need to set up planned maintenance on the tables so that they can be thoroughly checked.
Sav
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2012 21:51:01 GMT
How often do you consider the championship set of tables will need re-clothing, Sav ? Every 2 years ? Every 3 years ?
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Post by bigtj on Sept 1, 2012 7:17:06 GMT
I think a large thank to Sav is in order having completed what became a complicated job due to the condition of some tables, and in a tight time scale as well.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 1, 2012 8:02:09 GMT
Cheers TJ
I'll probably look at doing the rest after the AGM.
Tommo, my view is that the tables are our national tournament tables and should be kept in such condition. It should not be a case of waiting until they need recovering, they should be kept tiptop.
They do not get that much use, but the cloth should be on there for a maximum of three years, two preferably. This would allow a three/three/four rotation, much easier than six! There needs to be an annual close season inspection of all of them.
1045 and 1691, the round leg tables, need to be sold on as their legs do not fit the octagonal sockets. Those sockets cannot be repaired at present and sooner or later the legs will get mixed up as it's confusing for the Hirers. I know where to get a thread cutter for the octagonal sockets so they can easily be repaired, Also the round leg tables have to be completely dismantled to get at the leg sockets, a very difficult and risky job. Octagonal leg tables to be purchased.
A thread cutter should be bought when finances allow (£250), mainly for the female sockets, the male leg threads can be rebuilt, Dennis Atkins and I have both managed this.
These six tables are now in better condition and better lit than they have been for a long while and should be easier to set up as the slates are now flat in the supports. I wonder if in years to come after I have long hung up my cue, whether people will wonder why and where from are all the twp p's under the slates ;D ;D.
Planning, Planning Planning!!!!!!
Someone else needs to learn what I have learned on table maintenance, too much knowledge in one place alone is asking for future disaster. I'll rewrite my set of instructions on the forum. There is now no longer anyone out there professionally that knows how to recover a table and actaull plays the game so they know what players want!!
The tables' committee must be resurrected and the load taken off Dave Alder's shoulders for deliveries and collection. It cannot continue that he alone is doing the lot. He is delivering the tables to venues and often unloading them completely on his own, tournament organisers wake up!! help him.
Planned maintenance and inspection of the tables must commence. The forum now has a section for tournaments to publically report problems, use it.
Sometime in the not too distant future the van is going to die, budget forecasting and planning must be adopted now that AEBBA is effectively a small business.
The ball and the future is in the players court, but all I see is apathy apart from a very few people. When Dave retires or strains his back lifting tables into the lorry on his own, your county competitions, nationals and finals that you all love so much will suddenly stop. Wake up and smell the coffee. It would be nice to see more than ten people at this year's National AGM.
Sav
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2012 9:15:26 GMT
Planning, Planning Planning!!!!!!Someone else needs to learn what I have learned on table maintenance, too much knowledge in one place alone is asking for future disaster. I'll rewrite my set of instructions on the forum. There is now no longer anyone out there professionally that knows how to recover a table and actaull plays the game so they know what players want!! Sav Well, following your earlier wake-up call lodged at the time of BB Ltd's demise, David Jones (Surrey) is now sufficiently competent in looking after Surrey's set of 11 tables and has already performed refurbishments, and holds a spare top in his garage ready for an emergency. I believe that Tony Willis (Oxon) also has succesfully reclothed a table recently. I would imagine that Tony Webster (Pompey) also possesses the required skills. Down in Sussex we have Rod Tarratt and Steve Mariner who are able to maintain to a high standard - on an ad hoc basis. This is not to take anything away from Sav, who is a miracle-worker in taking on so many refurbs and delivering to a peerless standard on a tight schedule, and we'll never see his like again. And when Sav says "there is no-one out there professionally" we should take this as a warning not to entrust our valued merchandise into the hands of those 'professional restorer' firms who are springing up everywhere - as Sav hints, they do not possess the required expertise and attention to detail that goes with actually being a player of the game! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2012 12:40:59 GMT
Comments have been invited on the playing state of tables at various Opens.
These for what they're worth were my findings on the five I got to play on yesterday (Berks Open 2012):
Table 9: Brilliant cloth but Sav says has wobbly legs( threads shot). Perfect.
Table 3: Saw others struggled, and I did at first until I discovered the break was thick. Not bad.
Table 7: Break was impossible, Phil Collins beat K.T. on it by doing the reverse break. A struggle.
Table 4: An absolute pile of poo. Break came inside no matter how much left-hand-side was applied. All normal shots needed right-hand-side to work.
Table 2: I lost despite scoring 11k over two legs. An absolute joy to play on. Perfect.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 10, 2012 14:06:39 GMT
Comments have been invited on the playing state of tables at various Opens. These for what they're worth were my findings on the five I got to play on yesterday (Berks Open 2012): Table 9: Brilliant cloth but Sav says has wobbly legs( threads shot). Perfect.
Table 3: Saw others struggled, and I did at first until I discovered the break was thick. Not bad.
Table 7: Break was impossible, Phil Collins beat K.T. on it by doing the reverse break. A struggle.
Table 4: An absolute pile of poo. Break came inside no matter how much left-hand-side was applied. All normal shots needed right-hand-side to work.
Table 2: I lost despite scoring 11k over two legs. An absolute joy to play on. Perfect.Yes we need feedback thanks Clive, problem will be knowing which table was which. We will have to get some sort of numbering sheet going. In this case tables three and four had not been recovered and are about to be worked upon. Personally I got the break OK on both table four and seven with tap-up breaks on both tables. Table six I found very difficult with a tight break. Main problem yesterday was the lack of access to the hall and thirty minutes to level the tables before play commenced, totally inadequate. I needed time to check the recovered tables and could not get it. I levelled all tables best I could with the level and did not have time to play a single shot and check how they played. The tables did not have time to settle as they will do. table one proved that by going heavily uphill, that was the most difficult table I saw. Sav |
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enzo
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Post by enzo on Sept 11, 2012 11:30:28 GMT
In this case tables three and four had not been recovered and are about to be worked upon. Sav Unfortunately it showed. These two were without a doubt the worst 2 tables I've played on in an Open. I heard table 1 was also shocking but fortunately missed that one. Yes, eventually one could work at it and tease it in but they're not supposed to be like that at the top level. |
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Post by Chris on Sept 11, 2012 16:11:19 GMT
Just a small cautionary note here.
Having played at reading a fair amount it is often the table position that affects the table during the day as well.
At Reading both 1 ( by the stage) and 3 9by the door near the bar) have been notorious for difficulties not anyones fault. Maybe the flooring there? or something else?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 17:30:15 GMT
Just to confirm the table number layout then, for Berks 2012.......
(Clockwise)
9, 1, 2, (then toilets), 3, 4, 5, (then bar), 6, 7, 8 on stage side.
Conditions in the hall were pretty good IMHO, ambient I'd say.
Table 4 was just a rogue and I don't think any amount of levelling would have made much difference. And when Sav attends to that one amongst the next round of refurbs he fully expects to find a serious slate defect. :-/
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 11, 2012 18:20:53 GMT
Just to confirm the table number layout then, for Berks 2012....... (Clockwise) 9, 1, 2, (then toilets), 3, 4, 5, (then bar), 6, 7, 8 on stage side. Conditions in the hall were pretty good IMHO, ambient I'd say. Table 4 was just a rogue and I don't think any amount of levelling would have made much difference. And when Sav attends to that one amongst the next round of refurbs he fully expects to find a serious slate defect. :-/ I'm a bit lost here, Tables were numbered from stage towards bar - stage 1 2 bar 3 4 5 6 7 mens loos 8 ladies loos 9. 3 and 4 were not recovered and I am not expecting to find any major problems, though the nap was threadbare in places. Whichever one is the one I have almost finished has the best slate so far. The problem with 1 was a very uneven floor and no time to level it properly and it went heavily uphill, thus a very difficult break. I checked all measurements and centring of the slate and all was fine - a one-off. Sav |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 18:45:44 GMT
I'm a bit lost here, Tables were numbered from stage towards bar - stage 1 2 bar 3 4 5 6 7 mens loos 8 ladies loos 9. Well I was convinced that 9 stood next to 1 but then by the end I'd consumed quite a bit of Stella Artois. Were we at the same event? LOL |
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colinm
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Post by colinm on Sept 13, 2012 15:41:56 GMT
One of the issues which will no doubt have contributed to the poor playing of some tables was the extremely limited time we had top get the tables in and set up. Most opens are played on the Sunday following a competition on the Saturday (The Oxford Open is the other way round), the tables will invariably settle during the day and what can play well at 9.30am can be completely different by 4.30pm!
The easiest way to get around many of the difficult conditions would be to set them up on the Saturday, unfortunately this wasn't possible this time.
Colin
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 13, 2012 16:19:08 GMT
One of the issues which will no doubt have contributed to the poor playing of some tables was the extremely limited time we had top get the tables in and set up. Most opens are played on the Sunday following a competition on the Saturday (The Oxford Open is the other way round), the tables will invariably settle during the day and what can play well at 9.30am can be completely different by 4.30pm! The easiest way to get around many of the difficult conditions would be to set them up on the Saturday, unfortunately this wasn't possible this time. Colin Cheers Colin, I have tried to make this point as well. Thirty minutes for me to crawl around under nine tables, it was a miracle we got them as good as we did. Today is the first day I have been able to walk down the stairs without pain from my thighs. Sav |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Sept 15, 2012 14:50:22 GMT
I have finished ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Tonight will involve a considerable amount of ale!! I have to call time on the project as other jobs are overdue. Not 100% happy with the covering of a couple of the top cushions, but won't affect playing, need to refine my technique there. The remaining problems: Table 45B requires urgent work on reinforcing the rear left corner post. Table 45B clock sounds suspect. Table 227B requires less urgent work on the rear right leg post. Table 1691 has a bad crack in the slate front of right hand 20, slightly displaced, table is playable. Table 230B was table 1 at Berks, Sav to check at Intercounties. Table 153B was recovered early this year. very tight break at Berks, Sav to check at Intercounties. Table 1045 dodgy female socket on front right leg, MUST use the round leg with the longest thread. Table 36B has a bad top surface crack in front left hand corner and not the best slate generally. These tables will be FAST to begin with at least. The break spots may require a little tuning so be patient at the Intercounies next Sunday. They are all as identical as I could get them so it is down to how they are set up, there is no such thing as a bad table amongst them but they can be badly set up. Generally I was surprised by the poor condition the tables were in. Several have been badly knocked about especially at the rear where they have been stood on end on rough surfaces. These are your tables organisers, look after them!! They cannot easily be replaced. In the unlikely event you are wondering how many staples I prised loose with one tool and then pulled out one at a time with the snips?? the answer was a large coffee mug full and is below.  Sav |
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 15, 2012 17:59:36 GMT
I have finished ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Tonight will involve a considerable amount of ale!! In the unlikely event you are wondering how many staples I loosened and then pulled out one at a time?? the answer was a large coffee mug full and is below. Sav Congratulations on all the hard work Chris. And for the originality and arrangement of metal staples I am nominating you for the Turner Prize. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2012 21:14:28 GMT
Looks like a robot's chest wig. ;D
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