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Post by bigtj on Sept 20, 2012 17:04:46 GMT
Dave, take note of the positives and not the negatives, we do appreciate all the hard work you and all organisers put in.
In these difficult times it is getting increasingly harder to tally the books, players getting older, travelling less, financial restraints, drink/driving, and as a general entries being down if it wasn`t for local league players supporting there nearest open. Realise you all run at a loss, and if it means cutting back on prize monies so beit. I for one come along for the company, a chance to watch and score for the best our game has to offer, and its about time the whingers stood up and got counted, by offering there support.
Keep up the excellent work and see you at the weekend.
Glad you had a well earnt break and hope coming home to this has not soured that experience.
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Post by barbelman on Sept 20, 2012 17:13:38 GMT
In the words of Jessie J. "It's not about the money, money, money....."
Tony
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2012 17:32:01 GMT
In the words of Jessie J. "It's not about the money, money, money....." Tony Well, actually it is, Tony, as Dave mentions that the two previous Berks Opens ran at a loss. I've just checked out the line-up for Berks 2011 and there were 30 fewer entries than there were this year. This adds up to a difference of £300 and unless they used 6 fewer tables (unlikely !) they would indeed have made a huge loss ! So, my points are, a) who stood the cost of the massive loss in 2011 ? Somebody must have been out of pocket, and I hope to God it wasn't Dave ! b) If the deficit was covered by a sponsor, who was the sponsor and have they pulled out forever ? and c) If a well-supported event (80 entries for the 2012 competition) held at the focal point of the game runs at a loss, what hope it there for the rest of us ? Sorry to be mercenary over this. ;D |
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Post by peetee on Sept 20, 2012 18:17:36 GMT
If the Oxfordshire Open made a loss we would be trouble with the bank.
Just for the record this is Oxon Open income & Expence based on last year.
Prize Money...
£380 Winner £120
r/u £60
Semi finalist £30 each
1/4 finalist £20 each
Plate Winner £20
r/u £10
Highest break..M £10
Highest break..L £10
Furthest Lady £10
All receive trophies...£216 ( Chosen and checked well before the day)
Hire of Hall £75....Free of charge next year at Didcot.
Hire of tables £468
Raffle Prizes £62
Stationery £3.50
This amounts to £1204.50. This a huge total to get back and we did just.
Entries were 71..£710 (Could be better)
Sponsorship..£242 :)
Raffle £246 :)
Total £1198
Without sponsorship and the brilliant raffle we would be struggling.
Finally we do print a programme thankfully Tony does this FOC (Hope it's the same next year) ;)
Cheers
Pete
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Post by Chris on Sept 20, 2012 19:10:12 GMT
If prize monies are to be maitained do we raise entry fees?
If we did, would we get the number of entries that we do now, especially from the majority that enter, knowing that their chances of getting anything are few from the minority that can get there. I would not. Only because I enter for the game not the monies.
If not, should we accept that it is the winning that counts and lower the prize funds.
Or should we look at, it's about the entering and winning with a trophy without the thought of the cash prize? Putting more monies into trophies than cash prizes?
I gave my monies back to Guernsey for their league and future open events, as I believe it is about the sport.
Just a thought.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2012 19:43:44 GMT
Some interesting thoughts from Chris and food for thought for the future........
I think the whole point with Opens is that all are run by their respective County in their own sweet way, and (correct me if I'm wrong) have a set of finances completely independent of County Funds.
And most if not all aim to do nothing more than break even - I know this to be true with Surrey for instance - and funds are not, as far as I am aware, carried over to the ensuing year's event.
They cut the suit according to the cloth - in other words, the prize money and trophies are as good as the finances permit.
So what happens in the event of a loss ? Presumably the county would bail out a marginal loss as a one-off, but the main threat to the future of Opens is dwindling support. I don't see higher entry fees as the answer, nor a cutback on prizes given out in previous years, but maybe the time has come for organisers to start looking around more for local businesses to sponsor. And to do that we need to raise the profile of the game - somehow. :-/
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Post by bobhall on Sept 20, 2012 21:54:49 GMT
WOW OH WOW!!! It seems as though an explanation into the running of the Berks Open is needed. But where to start?? So much criticism and so little knowledge. An awful combitation at best >:( I think it best I start with AUGUST 2011. My wife of 33 years planned without my knowledge, a holiday with my Aunt and Uncle. They booked the 2 weeks in Greece the following day. NOVEMBER 2011. I booked all the competitions dates with Nobby(post office club) including Berks Open 9th September 2012. MAY 2012. My wife tells me with happiness that a holiday has been booked for 4th September - 18th September 2012. I now had to consider a replacement to run the Berks Open. Janet Burns has been with me on the desk at the Berks Open for a number of years and was the ideal choice. August 20th 2012. I ordered the trophies for the Berks Open and arranged collection for 6th September. However it has become clear that I did not order PLATE trophies. In the few weeks prior to the Berks Open the usual 'behind the scenes' organizing was well in hand. payments and entries were dealt with as soon as received. Access to the club arranged for 8am Delivery of tables from Chris Saville arranged for 8am Sam Alder, Dennis Atkins in place to set up tables along with a small number of helpers Janet Burns given all info to help her on the day My VERY FIRST HOLIDAY !!!EVER!!! With everything arranged I left Gatwick on 4th September at 06.35 on time. I returned to Gatwick on 18th September at 13.05 on time. I return to find that the whole bar billiard world is in chaos ??? I also find this thread started by bob hall >:( I find nothing in this thread regarding the Berks Open financial loss over recent years. I had a conversation with a player of HIGH REGARD at the last Berks Open about the level of prize money available at this Open. In the past I tried to spread the award money to cover the quarter finalists. Meaning the amounts for winner and runner up was significantly less. It was suggested that prize money could be better if quarter finalist only had trophies. The Berks Open has NO SPONSORS. This is the breakdown of the costs £780 = 78 Entries £181 = Raffle £961 = Total Income £468 = Table Hire £50 = Club Hire £50 = Raffle Prizes £140 = Trophies £250 = Prize Money £958 = Total Expense £3 = Balance Add to that the cost of the wine that was purchased as prizes. Also the cost of PLATE trophies that I neglected to buy. It all adds up to another FINANCIAL LOSS for the Berks Open. I may have to remove this one from the calender next year. The criticism received here is unjust and deplorable. All those involved in the running of OPENS and other competitions should be openly applauded and gratitude shown by all players at all times. Those who criticize the most should try it themselves, that way they can receive all the criticism they feel they may deserve I am to blame for the lack of trophies and accept full responsibility for that. Perhaps for the next 33 years i'll stay at home :-X :( i would appreciate not having the angry face i started this as a recognition to the fact that people were pissed off at not getting a trophy its not even about prize money its the trophies yes they were for gotton fine i accept that mistakes are made but can i say whats wrong with saying to the people during presentation i will get a trophies too you asap make them feel special for getting there. i enter to try and win something when i reached a final in the plate i was chuffed to get a trophy only to find the next open doesn't provide 1 for the plate for someone i know. what will happen? well we can all guess it will become a selection of which opens to open just for the prizes on offer this is a game everyone loves to play if they didn't they wouldn't play. i was not aiming to cause a rant i was here so people could realise that this is not the first time that people haven't received trophies and that hopefully the people affected would at least get one if people dont like people putting there opinions up dont have a forum where you discuss things and cancel all opens and watch this game die but instead take the opinion on board and find ways to make sure the games keep growing |
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David.G
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Post by David.G on Sept 20, 2012 23:18:26 GMT
you don't appreciate the angry face? you also don't appreciate the anger you have generated through your total disregard for searching out the truth.
Your 'Rant' against my team of VOLUNTEERS who spent their Sunday running a competition for YOUR BENEFIT has made me very angry.
You had NO KNOWLEDGE or AWARENESS about the 'missing trophies'. Your comments were UNJUST
If you feel so 'disgusted' with the way the 'OPENS' are run, perhaps you should save your pennies and not enter, that way you won't feel so bad
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Post by Sir Chancelot on Sept 21, 2012 9:06:42 GMT
But.... Phil Hawkins did say at the beginning of the day that there had been a mix-up with the trophies and there were no plate trophies present and they were going to go out and try to find some. I have to give Bob my full backing on this one. I'm afraid putting aside a bottle of wine from the Raffle as a way out of the situation is just not good enough. Richard Wooton (winner of the Plate) was insulted - as would I have been had it been me. He won a competition and his prize did not cover his entry fee ! Berks can't claim lack of funds, the entry of 80 was well up on last year (49). This put a dampener on an otherwise enjoyable event. I doubt if Richard Wooton (Being an England International) felt insulted, as he must have pleanty of trophies already and I doubt if he was in it for the money. Surprised maybe, but not insulted. I would be very pleased and over the moon to win a plate competition, and the money or trophy would not come into it. Perhaps all these people that win multiple medals/trophies can enlighten us, as to the significance and importance in their lives of having a piece of plastic as a trophy, and if it is, or not, the end of the world if they do not receive a trophy once in awhile. May I ask - If not, does it stop the world turning ::) I am in support of Dave and please give the guy a break. |
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Post by Chunky Monkey on Sept 21, 2012 9:34:59 GMT
I can understand that Dave is angry with the posts made and i would be too..
When i won the plate 2 years ago i did not receive a trophy as it had been forgotten.... no big deal, i approached Dave and this was put right at a later stage. I also asked about prize money for the plate as there was none and he told me the reason. Fine not a problem, thank you Dave for explaing. Please Keep up the Great Work you do for All of Us.
P.s Hope you had a great Holiday Dave and see you some time Sunday.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 10:37:41 GMT
Are we not getting a little sidetracked from the REAL issue here?
Surely this is really about whether Dave deserves or has any right to an holiday?
I, for one, think absolutely no! It is a disgrace for him to think it acceptable to go swanning around the more challenged spots of Europe seeking to do good by boosting ailing economies!
It seems that all this talk of 'Dave, you're a saint.' has gone to his head! After all, I have to suffer with only three or four trips abroad each year (because of work, mostly) and do you hear me looking for praise? Oh no siree!!
I mean, either he is committed to Bar Billiards or not. And certainly holidays every 30 years do not show the kind of commitment the Bar Billiards community need. Sorry Dave, but you need to put a shift in if you going to make this work!
I am thinking of starting a new thread - 'Should Dave be banned from ever taking an holiday again?'. That'll show the measure of people's opinion!
Just being helpful, you understand!
;-)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2012 11:40:01 GMT
Two really excellent, diplomatic posts there from Kevin (as ever, neutral despite a member of his family being involved) and Elsie injecting a bit of humour.
Kev finds the time to post on here and try and pour oil on troubled waters despite the last minute arrangements involving getting married to Sandra tomorrow for which we wish them both ALL THE BEST and HAPPINESS FOR THE FUTURE.
However........Stormin' has reminded me in his post that I am implicated by being in support of Boball's original post, and that hasn't changed.
Bob opened this thread, and was extremely brave in doing so, to discuss a theme (notice the subject title "County Opens") and not just specifically have a pop about one particular Open.
All that Bob was guilty of was in putting his case too forcefully (using such words as 'disgusted') and this set off the usual indignant and defensive comments and platitudes offered to Dave, who nobody ever denies is a wonderful servant to the game and who we have to keep sweet because without all his single-handed effort with tournaments and tables the rest of us would have to do our bit and break our backs and get our hands dirty.
I witnessed with equal dismay Richard's shock at getting nothing for his efforts. And what about the other Richard, Mr Corbould, in his first final of a National, albeit a Plate ? I was one stage away, and can tell you that I would have been doubly disappointed if it had been me!
If Surrey, the newest to the scene in running an Open, can offer prize money and a trophy to their Plate winner and runner-up, and a trophy to the Plate Semi-Finalists, then the very least that should have been offered here was a 'bit of plastic or wood' as Stormin' calls it for the finalists. Forget the money, it's not important. >:(
As Bob says, it's not the first time it's happened, AEBBA Rules state that Runners-up trophies should be awarded for the County Championships. Out the four occasions that Surrey A managed this in recent years, I have ONE to show for it.
I would suggest that rather than gang up on Bob in an attempt to stifle his views, Bob is the very sort of person that should be encouraged to continue participating in National events. It's never a cheap day, I reckon I get through twenty pounds of petrol and spend twenty more on food and drink and raffle etc on the day, so add this to the entry fee and that's fifty sovs.
If you don't start looking after your competitors and taking their sincere and candid comments at face value, then as Bob said people will start not bothering to enter. It's not about the money, or necessarily about a pruned budget, but what it is very much about is a question of attitudes.
I really enjoyed my first (and only) Berks Open, and the persons on the Admin Desk did an excellent job, I will say that. But Bob does not deserve to take all this flak, and I think that he is owed an apology.
tommo
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Post by Q on Sept 21, 2012 12:05:59 GMT
I have let this run because it has been a healthy debate, I for one was totally shocked reading the financial statements from organisers.
I think the general concensus is that ALL organisers do a thankless task and that we should ALL encourage/BEG them to continue, there has to be an answer somewhere but in the current economic state sponsors are probably harder to find than hens teeth.
Majority enter opens for the social aspect (I think) there will always be the odd pot hunter but as has already been said if you already have a few what is one extra, I know from my slotracing days that my trophies were all boxed up and put in the loft EXCEPT for the two gained for winning a UK national final, they were proudly on display until I moved and they too have now been relegated to the loft.
Money?? if ANYONE enters opens just in the hope of winning a few quid then I feel sorry for them, they should save their money and stay at home.
Surely the main reason for entering (for the majority) is the hope that they COULD cause an upset and make the quarters, just to have that recognised in a place like this or one of the many websites would be reward enough.
Bob... I know how enthusiastic you are about this game, but you do have a lot to learn about the realities of it, perhaps you could take an active role in helping to organise the Sussex Open, then perhaps you would understand WHY Dave has got angry with you.
On a final note PLEASE keep this thread civil, it is an important discussion and I would hate to lock it, so no flaming, and lets ALL try to work out a resolution to the problems faced by all the active organisers.
I HAVE SET UP A POLL, WILL ALL MEMBERS PLEASE VOTE.
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Post by barbelman on Sept 21, 2012 12:13:30 GMT
Forget the money, it's not important. >:( 'ere Tommo...Jessie j and I said that earlier and you told us it was... ;D Tony |
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Post by BigPhilMac on Sept 21, 2012 12:19:27 GMT
I believe the problem here is that we are all too expectant of things and seem to be narrow minded in the sense that we expect everything to run smoothly in this imaginary ideal world that people do seem to obssess about. What a few people ought to do i think is have a step back and a breather and just go "these things happen at tge end of the day" rather than be so quick to point the dreaded finger of blame.
I will admit i have grumbled about waiting times and such like but after speaking to people and reading things on the forum, it makes me see the bigger picture.
And as for dave, hes a cracking bloke whos done miracles, which ive even noticed in my short time in the game but hes only human and things like this happen. I couldnt attend the open so i probably dont have much of an opinion but reading this makes my mind really think.
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Post by bigtj on Sept 21, 2012 18:49:12 GMT
if any comments have made Bob feel aggrieved for that I am sorry as I know he speaks from the heart and was talking in general about opens, but the thread has gone many ways, among which has been healthy debate. Some areas did verge on personal, but were kept within bounds, and god only knows how Dave must have felt coming home from holiday to find what had transpired.
Yes Clive we do need to support Bob and others of similar ilk within the game, but if you open something for healthy debate, sometimes some flak will come your way.
I do feel we need to be careful not to discourage people letting their feelings be known, but sometimes it is easier to write it for others to see rather than approach the people who have seemed to aggrieve you.
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enzo
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Post by enzo on Sept 28, 2012 9:36:48 GMT
I'm staying neutral on this one, I see Bob's angle, and there are a few flaws in ways Opens are run, such as unnecessary waiting time where there are free tables etc but I don't think most of us would like to be the other side of the desk, the hours of behind the scenes work and the blame when things aren't perfect. For those willing, we must applaud. I think a quiet word in the ear of an organiser can resolve any shortcomings in prizes etc.
Any more trophy problems it's always worth giving me a bell, especially if I'm coming up anyway! Even if it's too late and I'm already there more often than not I still have some in the boot from trade shows (like at the Berks ::) )
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Post by Chris on Sept 28, 2012 18:05:53 GMT
Having originally run the Portsmouth Opens for many years, so I feel able to say as an ex organiser.
Open organisers and AEBBA organisers are stars ;D Free tables within a competition do not mean time wasted, organisers can show you why, but why should they ?? They know what they are doing like Nigel Sunday and hey you all owe him a great deal for his highly skilled expertise in sorting play and times. Like Dave an unsung hero :D
As for trophies, well the fame and the glory on the day must be the best thing since sliced bread as they say. Trophies will follow but surely if you win it is about the title you have won, which is why you entered and hoped for.
The very few work so hard for the majority. Always been the same.
The minority have a few harsh words to say. When they do just think about the organisers and would you do it?? What do they do....
answer questions on here (time), update lists, sort the draw, deliver tables, sort trophies, ensure financial viability as far as they can, so a County is not in deficit, organise the raffle, take the verbal stick ( especially re the tables possibly not now after the refurbs) and on here take the aftermath... WOULD YOU DO IT?? HAVE YOU DONE IT?? If you are not careful you will have no opens as people who give their time freely and willingly won't want to do it anymore.
Think about your B B colleagues who spend hours !!
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Post by Ros on Sept 29, 2012 7:39:21 GMT
With regard to the Berks Plate trophies, I was there at the beginning of the day, but any announcement certainly passed me by.
I did see Richard's shock on being offered a bottle of wine for winning the plate and I believe he felt insulted.
With hindsight, maybe it would have been better to make an announcement during the presentation about the missing trophies and promise to supply these at a later date? I very much doubt that prize money was a part of the issue.
Yes, those pieces of metal, marble and plastic do end up in the loft eventually, but on the day and for some months afterwards, they are valued.
Phil and Janet worked very hard on the day and are to be congratulated. Dave had clearly worked hard beforehand and has worked tirelessly for Bar Billiards over the years - thanks are also due to him.
With regard to Plate competitions in general, it would be a lovely idea to redraw the plate (as now happens in Jersey, where they have the benefit of a 2 day competition) especially when (like me in Berks) you find yourself in the group of death. However, I fully understand why that is not practical on a 1 day open.
However, I do strongly believe that if you enter a competition which clearly states that there is a Plate, then barring emergencies, you should stay for the plate if you lose your first round. Not staying for the plate is, in my opinion, disrespectful to the organisers and fellow competitors. Worse still, in some of the smaller competitions, it can cause a massive distortion to who ends up in some of the later stages of a plate competition.
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Post by NigelS on Sept 29, 2012 15:49:19 GMT
Thanks for your comments Chris regarding free tables......it is very easy for people to make comment when tables are not being used in a particular series of an open, there is usually a very good reason for this. I would never write a playing schedule without trying to optimise the use of the tables to get the tournament to its conclusion in the quickest possible time.
Last Sunday there was a break for the county champs to fit in ladies singles games, but using the free 7 tables would not have speeded up the day, however one player made the comment that they were very annoyed at the "unnecessary 2 hour gap" until I pointed out that 2 legs only took 40 mins!
Other free tables can be due to people not showing up/ not taking part in the plate - you can't allow for this before the start of the event.
A lengthy waiting time is inevitable between 1st and 2nd round matches especially if you go in the plate...half the players are eliminated in round 1, so you have to wait for the 2nd half of the tournament to begin before you play your 2nd match, after the 2nd match the tournament will speed up of course. Tournament organisers bend over backwards to accomodate everyone....later start times for longer travellers, even though it would be easier to just to give everyone a start time depending on where they are in the draw.
My advice to the moaners is to put yourself forward and compose a playing schedule yourself, it isn't easy to write one that actually works let alone write one that keeps every player happy!
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Post by bigtj on Sept 29, 2012 16:47:19 GMT
Well said Chris and Nigel, always easy to sit back and let others do it and then have a moan. Some of those waiting could perhaps offer to score a game to pass the time rather than the poor old organiser having to chase around to get scorers, and again play havoc with their schedules by having to await volunteers ( which again seem very often to be the same old faces).
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Post by BigPhilMac on Sept 29, 2012 17:39:32 GMT
Well said Chris and Nigel, always easy to sit back and let others do it and then have a moan. Some of those waiting could perhaps offer to score a game to pass the time rather than the poor old organiser having to chase around to get scorers, and again play havoc with their schedules by having to await volunteers ( which again seem very often to be the same old faces). maybe that could be a compulsory thing, that anyone whos not playing should score to do their when they are next to an empty seat, and save time off a potentially long day. I feel for organisers when they are looking for scorers for a good few minutes. The worse bit is when people start looking at everyone else when scorers are being asked for. |
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David.G
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Post by David.G on Sept 30, 2012 19:36:53 GMT
Only solution to scoring is to have the LOSER of the previous game to score the next. that way there will always be a scorer and they will only score one match
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colinm
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Post by colinm on Oct 2, 2012 12:49:46 GMT
Only solution to scoring is to have the LOSER of the previous game to score the next. that way there will always be a scorer and they will only score one match I think that is a great idea and certainly one which would solve the problem, the simple solutions are always the best ;) |
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Post by peetee on Oct 2, 2012 16:30:47 GMT
Good Idea.
Might try it at the Oxon Open next year.
Pete
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Post by Colemanator on Oct 2, 2012 16:34:52 GMT
Only solution to scoring is to have the LOSER of the previous game to score the next. that way there will always be a scorer and they will only score one match People usually want a fag/drink/toilet break after a game, or even after scoring a game, rather going straight to one or the other. |
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enzo
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Post by enzo on Oct 5, 2012 8:50:54 GMT
My advice to the moaners is to put yourself forward This is true, as per my first post, I think constructive criticism should be heard but if any moaners think there is a problem then try thinking of solutions first and perhaps suggesting them. Anyway, that's enough of this thread for me I think everyone's proved their points. |
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Post by Chris on Oct 5, 2012 16:40:19 GMT
Loz I agree with you the discussion has probably run its course.
The outcomes though need to be thought about, the most important for me is what do we offer to those that already do so much for the game?
I cannot put tables up or level them or take them down, as I am not allowed to due to previous back injury.
I really don't want to do the raffle, one of the hardest tasks that Ron and Eileen Britton and Bill Kerr do so well, bless you!!
I don't want to do any of the formats that Nigel does so well, as it would take me so much longer.
But I can and would:
Run an AEBBA Open and do the desk if needed (to give others a break, nothing wrong with what you do)
Do the printing of anything for anyone (BB related)
Give time back to an organiser on a desk, so they get a break
I could if available, and Dave was not able, drive the van with the tables, I have my MIDAS those not in schools won't know what that is but it means I have trained to drive large vehicles, but I can't set them up.
So what skills can we offer and would be willing to do to support? those that tirelessly work to ensure our games and competitions.
Maybe this is a new thread. What can and would you offer?? to support Opens. Will leave this question to others that know better or leave here.
Distributed organisation could help in certain tournaments. I am willing to put time in. Just let me know
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2012 18:28:09 GMT
Loz I agree with you the discussion has probably run its course. The outcomes though need to be thought about. We await with interest the results and conclusions from Bernie's poll. the most important for me is what do we offer to those that already do so much for the game? Sadly I'm cutting down on my playing and will only be entering two more, but I can act as a backup for Nigel if anyone needs a complicated schedule working out and he's too pushed for time. I did the first Surrey one from scratch just after Fazza (who used to do provide the service) withdrew from the scene. |
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Post by The Chubbster™ on Oct 11, 2012 19:53:01 GMT
Ok trophies….
I remember once winning a team competition in Brighton and being asked if we would like trophies. With the team being old timers who over the years had collected many trophies that were now either lost or gathering dust in the loft, the general consensus was that having the perpetual trophy on display in the pub for a year would be reward enough. We therefore informed the league we would not require individual trophies and that the league should save its money. I know this was also common practice for the Stadium C who for a good few years won the league more times than not, and each time felt it was better for the league to save its money.
Could this or a model along these lines not be implemented in National Open Competitions? For the winner of the main competition I would say always provide a trophy, but for runners up, semi and quarter finalists, high breaks etc, would it not make sense to ask who requires a trophies and then supply one after the event should they feel they need one? I for one would rather see certificates handed out for semis, quarters, high breaks (as well as a small amount of prize money). It’s enough of a recognition in my opinion and it saves on money which is the most important factor being discussed here.
Under this model, anyone who was that desperate for a piece of “silverware” so to speak would be in the position of near enough every other sportsman playing in the highest level of his or hers chosen competitions, where only victory would guarantee a trophy.
Open competitions are as good a standard as you can get and for me personally, I find it alarming that we are risking there very existence (due to finances) while at the same time spending money and giving trophies to people who don’t make the final or even worse (in my opinion), and I apologise if I offend anyone here, but in the case of plate competitions, spending money and giving trophies to people who lose in the very first round. This leads me onto……
Plate completions.
I understand the reason for their existence (giving people another game I assume). If they are really needed (and personally, I think they are needed currently to attract players from far and wide) then I would rather people treat them for what they are… a chance to have another game(s) if you lose in the first round and not much more than that. I personally find it baffling that we still award (all be it a very small amount) of ranking points to people who lets be honest…. can’t even win a single match in the first round proper on that particular day. I know it’s a small thing, but I believe the principle is wrong, as do I think rewarding those who do well in them with precious funds that the game can ill afford to waste.
As you can probably tell I’m not really a big fan of plate competitions. Like I said I have no problem with them and understand why they are needed, but being who I am that’s just what I think. I personally would prefer to see group phases implemented in all competitions and the plate scrapped altogether. Given the trouble they seem to cause on the day, I believe a group stage would achieve much better the goal of giving everyone a few games on the day, rather than having an entire separate competition (and by the looks of it spending extra valuable money on them in the form of prize money, trophies etc). I for one have always thought of plate competitions as massively devalued because lets face it, to be in it you have already lost at the earliest stage in the competition, the best players who lose in the first round are often not bothered and some people (and I hate to confess but me included) would rather support my friends still in the main competition or leave altogether than play in the plate. I know I don’t speak for everyone, but I speak for me, and I hope I’ve not offended anyone who takes the plate seriously with my words above. If I have then I apologise.
I’m glad this thread has remained open, as although what I have read has been heated at times, I am as you know a firm believer of open, honest (and yes, sometimes very tough and difficult) discussion. I would ask everyone to keep in mind that what unites us is far more important that what divides us. That although all viewpoints must be heard and can at times be difficult to hear and appear to be a personal attack, the overwhelming majority of people are striving for the same goal, and that together through discussion and debate, we are stronger than if we walk a segregated path.
One more thing, although I’ve not been around for a while, I too would like to add my voice to the chorus of gratitude being directed towards Dave Alder. I have only recently returned, but without you Sir I feel I would have little to come back to with regards to the “national” game. For all you have done for the game, and all I hope you continue to do, you have my and I know many peoples eternal gratitude. We would be nowhere without people like you, and it’s important that you never forget that.
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