Crawley & Dist 4-Pin League Yr 1

[gandalf the untidy]

Jul 7, 2013 20:18:22 GMT tommo III said:

The real test of course would be to see if it works on a 'narrow' table - remember next year's Open might be in Suffolk, exclusively on 'proper' narrow tables ! ;)

wonder where the nearest narrow table to eastbourne is situated?

[iang]

Jul 7, 2013 19:55:28 GMT gandalf the untidy said:

Jul 6, 2013 12:56:10 GMT tommo III said:

Stu Carruthers also does the "Gandalf 50-50 break" to good effect. ::)

Anyway, webpage has finally updated:
www.horshambarbilliards.co.uk/page5.html



Next week's matches:

Most of the players in the eastbourne 4 pin league go for the 50/50 break shot with varying degrees of success,
seems a bit easier with the crawley red spot being approx 20mm closer to the bulk line than in eastbourne,
the left hand 50 is marginally harder to play due to the more acute angle but the right hand 50 is a lot easier

The dun crew were having a try in the post match friendly as well, all good practice for next years 4 pin open! 8-)

regs cs

I'm not really sure why there should be a difference as the Sudbury rules say "The spot for the red ball shall be exactly halfway between the rim of the 200 hole closest to the Baulk line , and the baulk line." I take that to mean the end of the slate and the back edge of the D I know you said you would play "Crawley Rules" but why is there a difference in Eastbourne ??.

I hope I have got it right !!

Jul 8, 2013 15:30:29 GMT gandalf the untidy said:

wonder where the nearest narrow table to eastbourne is situated?

According to the AEBBA map, I reckon about 50 miles away......you're spoilt for choice between Dover to the East, Carshalton to the Northwest and Midhurst to the West. ;)

Playing tonight:

Wed 10th July:
Bull v Mill House
Malt Shovel v Dun Horse A

Margo and I have decided to commission a couple of perpetual trophies. They're not finalised yet with engraving, but here's what they look like:

Attachments:

[bigjimsilverfox]

Jul 10, 2013 10:03:02 GMT tommo III said:

Playing tonight:

Wed 10th July:
Bull v Mill House
Malt Shovel v Dun Horse A

Margo and I have decided to commission a couple of perpetual trophies. They're not finalised yet with engraving, but here's what they look like:

I shall be in The Malt tonight to whatch the 4 pin Derby :)
should be very interesting seeing this played for the first time

Scores tell the story: we were GORED by the Bull:

Bull		Mill House
Gareth Dell	1830	Clive Thompson	1750
Chris Haynes	2330	Mick Holmwood	1640
Colin Southouse	3940	Margo Thompson	1040
Gareth Dell	2830	Clive Thompson	1170
Chris Haynes	1870	Mick Holmwood	1170
Colin Southouse	4010	Margo Thompson	440
Result	6	Result	0

Gareth won the opener with the 200 and the home team went from strength to strength, with Gandalf particularly impressive with one score just under and one just over 4k.
Nonetheless a pleasant evening, and we were treated to a tasty feast of pizza. Looking forward to the return match in a month's time. 8-)

[hoppo]

Hi All

Result of Malt Shovel v Dun Horse

Rob Jones 1320 V 1150 Ian Giffen
Stuart Carruthers 1210 V 1300 Paul Jobbins
Steve Hopkins 1170 V 1040 John Lear
Rob Jones 1490 V 620 Ian Giffen
Stuart Carruthers 420 V 1270 Graham Sparksman
Jim Greensted 1350 V 1090 John Lear

Malt Shovel won 4-2

Thanks to Lorraine for the hot snacks and for Jim for ironing and brushing the table.

A fun evening and having fun playing 4 pin.

[gandalf the untidy]

Jul 10, 2013 23:15:35 GMT tommo III said:

Scores tell the story: we were GORED by the Bull:

Bull		Mill House
Gareth Dell	1830	Clive Thompson	1750
Chris Haynes	2330	Mick Holmwood	1640
Colin Southouse	3940	Margo Thompson	1040
Gareth Dell	2830	Clive Thompson	1170
Chris Haynes	1870	Mick Holmwood	1170
Colin Southouse	4010	Margo Thompson	440
Result	6	Result	0

Gareth won the opener with the 200 and the home team went from strength to strength, with Gandalf particularly impressive with one score just under and one just over 4k.
Nonetheless a pleasant evening, and we were treated to a tasty feast of pizza. Looking forward to the return match in a month's time. 8-)

and a nice 1060 break from Gareth Dell

League Table, last nights results included:

Pos	Team	P	W	D	L	F	A	Pts
1	Bull	2	1	1	0	9	3	9
2	Malt Shovel	2	1	0	1	6	6	6
3	Dun Horse A	2	0	1	1	5	7	5
4	Mill House	2	1	0	1	4	8	4

Next matches (no games next week which is B'hurst Jubilee Cup week):

Wed 24th July:
Mill House v Dun Horse A
Bull v Malt Shovel

[iang]

Jul 11, 2013 7:09:27 GMT hoppo said:

Hi All

Result of Malt Shovel v Dun Horse

Rob Jones 1320 V 1150 Ian Giffen
Stuart Carruthers 1210 V 1300 Paul Jobbins
Steve Hopkins 1170 V 1040 John Lear
Rob Jones 1490 V 620 Ian Giffen
Stuart Carruthers 420 V 1270 Graham Sparksman
Jim Greensted 1350 V 1090 John Lear

Malt Shovel won 4-2

Thanks to Lorraine for the hot snacks and for Jim for ironing and brushing the table.

A fun evening and having fun playing 4 pin.

Good laughs all round, hoppo just nicking the 3rd with a 200 shot, The home side won the toss in the first round but all 3 players declined the break :D

Good to see the Fox trying his hand at 4 pin and only just beating King Lear.
Also met Lorraine who gave support to both sides and laid on some tasty grub.

[gandalf the untidy]

hi Crawley 4 pinners

if a player scores and keeps a high break during the game and then knocks over the BP on a later break or at the end of the game, should the posted high break count?

regs cs

Not wishing to deviate at all from East Anglian rules, here is my interpretation of your instance:

Fast-forward to the end of the game, and the last ball has to be potted. The pegs stay up and the ball has to be played off the side cush into any hole (even the 50 !) If the peg goes over, loss of break. But if no foul, score kept.

Under the spirit of this incident, and in the absence of anything definitive in either Sudbury or Norwich Rules, I'd say the two actions are detached from each other. So the top break counts as a historical event, whether or not the total score it was part of was later lost by the felling of the black.

Back from the engravers:

[barbelman]

Jul 19, 2013 11:01:11 GMT tommo III said:

Back from the engravers:

They look very good Tommo....and very different from the norm.  Well done.

Tony

[gandalf the untidy]

Hi Tommo

You've forgotten to put "The Bull" on the winners trophy1

All in good time, dear boy! Besides. the fat lady hasn't sung yet ! Cheerful


PS Perhaps I should have commissioned some Bendy Bullies instead !

Jul 19, 2013 11:18:33 GMT barbelman said:

They look very good Tommo....and very different from the norm.  Well done.
Tony

Thanks Tony,
All done to a tight budget !
Margo caught me studying one of the darning mushrooms in her needlework box and the idea took off from there.
We wanted something unique and she sourced the wooden 'tops' from a local haberdashers. And I bought a couple of matching plinths from eBay.

Then any excuse to visit the little engraving firm I have discovered who function in the grounds of the Gatwick Aviation Museum - and job done !

The major item will probably end up on Gandalf's mantlepiece - but, hey ho ! will be worth it just to see his little face on the presentation evening ! Cheerful

[gandalf the untidy]

Jul 19, 2013 12:20:20 GMT tommo III said:

All in good time, dear boy! Besides. the fat lady hasn't sung yet ! Cheerful


PS Perhaps I should have commissioned some Bendy Bullies instead !
View Attachment

mooooooo!

[bigjimsilverfox]

The Malt has a new Landlord by the name of Sam! Unfortunately he will be removing the table but AFTER we have finished our little 4 pin season

[gandalf the untidy]

in reply to iang's post of 9th july re red spot position....

we adopted the sudbury rules and adjusted them for singles play, but we noted the item in foul shots rule 2.2

"Any ball returns to the baulk. (The 'D' counts as baulk)."

we therefore believed rightly or wrongly that the D is part of the bulk line so the red spot is mid way between the 200 and the front of the D

we will discuss and resolve prior to next summers 4 pin league.

My aim will be to compile a standard set of rules approved by AEBBA with the agreement of all 4 pin leagues so that all play the same rules

I had hoped (and remain hopeful) to get some feedback from Sudbury or Norwich members as they are the experts, i'm all for tweeking the rules to

make the game fairer and more fun to play, which i know is harder than ....... you know what!

regs cs

Jul 20, 2013 19:00:28 GMT gandalf the untidy said:

we will discuss and resolve prior to next summers 4 pin league.

My aim will be to compile a standard set of rules approved by AEBBA with the agreement of all 4 pin leagues so that all play the same rules

I had hoped (and remain hopeful) to get some feedback from Sudbury or Norwich members as they are the experts, i'm all for tweeking the rules to

make the game fairer and more fun to play, which i know is harder than ....... you know what!

regs cs

Let's not get above our station here, Gandalf.

1. 4-Pin belongs to Sudbury (Suffolk) and Norwich (Norfolk). Our game is 3-Pin. We should not try to dictate to them how to run 4-Pin.

2. The only conflict between Sudbury and Norwich rules is on the "last ball shot" - hopefully they will resolve this between themselves, ideally before the next 4-Pin Open.

3. There are other 4-Pin leagues, yes, but Sudbury and Norwich are the only ones affiliated to the AEBBA, having had this bestowed on them at last December's AEBBA AGM as "East Anglia" to assist recognition of the first Open as a 'ranked' event.

4. Approval/embodiment of their Rules within the AEBBA set could be a natural and logical follow-on from an associate membership - but there is plenty of discussion on this due to take place when the time comes (2013 AGM).

[gandalf the untidy]

Jul 20, 2013 19:30:46 GMT tommo III said:

Jul 20, 2013 19:00:28 GMT gandalf the untidy said:

we will discuss and resolve prior to next summers 4 pin league.

My aim will be to compile a standard set of rules approved by AEBBA with the agreement of all 4 pin leagues so that all play the same rules

I had hoped (and remain hopeful) to get some feedback from Sudbury or Norwich members as they are the experts, i'm all for tweeking the rules to

make the game fairer and more fun to play, which i know is harder than ....... you know what!

regs cs

Let's not get above our station here, Gandalf.

1. 4-Pin belongs to Sudbury (Suffolk) and Norwich (Norfolk). Our game is 3-Pin. We should not try to dictate to them how to run 4-Pin.

2. The only conflict between Sudbury and Norwich rules is on the "last ball shot" - hopefully they will resolve this between themselves, ideally before the next 4-Pin Open.

3. There are other 4-Pin leagues, yes, but Sudbury and Norwich are the only ones affiliated to the AEBBA, having had this bestowed on them at last December's AEBBA AGM as "East Anglia" to assist recognition of the first Open as a 'ranked' event.

4. Approval/embodiment of their Rules within the AEBBA set could be a natural and logical follow-on from an associate membership - but there is plenty of discussion on this due to take place when
the time comes (2013 AGM).

Not trying to dictate anything tommo..just hoping to work toward a common set of 4 pin rules through discussion which all can play to even if we are on wide tables and only play in the summer

Simply offering the view that we shouldn't get too intense, ours is a Summer league and started off with the intention of being a bit of fun, an interesting diversion.

Eastbourne seem to have made great strides forward to the point where you have three or more players who could mount a serious challenge in the second Open: be that as it may, the real 4-Pin experts are those in East Anglia, some of whom have been playing for 40 years. Their rules will have evolved over a long period of time and I don't have a problem with them. Kiss



PS - not being funny, but no need for an enormous quote each time, surely ?

Jul 20, 2013 19:00:28 GMT gandalf the untidy said:

in reply to iang's post of 9th july re red spot position....
we adopted the sudbury rules and adjusted them for singles play, but we noted the item in foul shots rule 2.2
"Any ball returns to the baulk. (The 'D' counts as baulk)."
we therefore believed rightly or wrongly that the D is part of the bulk line so the red spot is mid way between the 200 and the front of the D
regs cs

Just realised that this is an interpretation query, sorry !

Yes, Ian has it right, you measure halfway from the near edge of the 200 hole to the back of the D (= the baulk line).

The bit you have found about 'D' counting as baulk is only in the case of a foul shot as described.

If the measure was meant to be from the front of the 'D' I'm sure Sudbury would have said 'front of the D' rather than - as they clearly say - the baulk line.

Regards,
tommo

[BB Warrior]

Jul 20, 2013 19:30:46 GMT tommo III said:

3. There are other 4-Pin leagues, yes, but Sudbury and Norwich are the only ones affiliated to the AEBBA, having had this bestowed on them at last December's AEBBA AGM as "East Anglia" to assist recognition of the first Open as a 'ranked' event.

4. Approval/embodiment of their Rules within the AEBBA set could be a natural and logical follow-on from an associate membership - but there is plenty of discussion on this due to take place when the time comes (2013 AGM).

Before you get too excited about the idea of AEBBA including 4-Pin Rules, perhaps you should remember that "East Anglia" was only given "one year of free affiliation as associated members for 2013".... .... I would assume that they would need to apply, gain approval and pay for Full Membership before any consideration could be made for inclusion of their rules by AEBBA.

Since Sudbury and Norwich are in 2 different counties (and apparently, based on this dicussion, also have slightly different rules) it may also be necessary for them to apply separately for membership of AEBBA, as all of the other counties have to do each year. Tongues

Apologies for taking this for the Crawley and (very geographically-extended) District 4-Pin League thread....

Jul 21, 2013 6:47:50 GMT BB Warrior said:

Before you get too excited about the idea of AEBBA including 4-Pin Rules, perhaps you should remember that "East Anglia" was only given "one year of free affiliation as associated members for 2013" .... I would assume that they would need to apply, gain approval and pay for Full Membership before any consideration could be made for inclusion of their rules by AEBBA.
Since Sudbury and Norwich are in 2 different counties (and apparently, based on this dicussion, also have slightly different rules) it may also be necessary for them to apply separately for membership of AEBBA, as all of the other counties have to do each year. Tongues

You are quite correct in what you say, Dave.
We can hopefully draw on these posts when the time comes to highlight this issue on the lead up to the AEBBA AGM.

[iang]

Jul 20, 2013 12:45:38 GMT bigjimsilverfox said:

The Malt has a new Landlord by the name of Sam! Unfortunately he will be removing the table but AFTER we have finished our little 4 pin season

That is a shame Jim. Is he a new permanant Landlord & what happened to the nice Lorraine ?

[bigjimsilverfox]

[quote That is a shame Jim. Is he a new permanant Landlord & what happened to the nice Lorraine ?[/quote]

Ian yes he is permanant , Lorraine was only ever a temp measure by Enterprise to keep the pub trading. Saturday night was buzing with music from Jellyhead and I think this will continue while Sam is there thumbs up

Playing tonight:

Wed 24th July:
Mill House v Dun Horse A
Bull v Malt Shovel

Good luck to all !

[iang]

looking forward to playing at the Mill House & against the 4 pin king hope to learn tonight & maybe take a few.
It's down to the Malt Shovel to put the breaks on the Bull & stop them from running away with it