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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 2, 2006 8:10:12 GMT
What also needs to be mentioned, I feel, are the big counties like Kent and Bucks (not having a go, just illustrating my point) who promote their own Opens and expect to see all other counties send loads of players, but only show up at other Opens in single file. Don't see what this has to do with the rankings and/or the BBQ, please explain.
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Post by fazza on Nov 2, 2006 8:36:31 GMT
Thought I had.
I am NOT, repeat NOT, having a go.
I was explaining that the rankings were always geared towards the All-England events, and the Opens (which were not even under AE control) were "secondary" if you pardon my use of the word.
The fact is that every Open has a great number of local players enter (for obvious reasons, and quite rightly). Many of these are only seen on the circuit once a year. This means that it is more of a "local" event, in a way.
My point was that, if only these local players could now be encouraged to do some of the other Opens more often, the numbers of entries in ALL opens would increase, or at least level off, rather than reduce as some have in the last 2 or 3 years.
My illustration was really not having a pop at any county, it was just to show what I mean in REAL terms. If counties expect everyone else to show up and support THEIR events, they should be reasonably be expected to at least try to support others, occasionally.
Reciprocation is what it is called.
As you seem to have taken offence, I have deleted the names of the Counties that I used to illustrate my point, and apologise, but surely you should see what I am getting at.
One county in particular used to have a regular block of ten players doing the circuit but, it seems, since they started their own event, we rarely see more than 1 or 2.
Don't know why!
The fact is that Opens now have a greater impact on the rankings, even though they could be considered as glorified local events. That is my point
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 2, 2006 9:04:51 GMT
Hadn't taken offence Peter ::) Just wanted to know what you meant.
My league is the biggest in Kent, but is showing signs of contraction with age of the players. As I have commented elsewhere, 65 miles to our 'home' open and 120 miles to our next nearest open is too far and too expensive for my local players. That will probably include me from next year (apart from Kent/Surrey/Sussex). There is a sprinkling from Medway and / or Tunbridge Wells, but they are sma ller leagues.
Getting players to travel from Kent has been an increasing problem and I had to ask down to nearly number twenty in the KBBA rankings to get the first five guaranteed places in the intercounty side.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2006 9:23:44 GMT
May I respectfully suggest that, too avoid getting too bogged down with "asides", we now have a poll on how we in general view the radical changes (yes, they can be described as that) which Pete has offered to make to the ranking points system ?
Nigel has passed his comments, quite favourable ones, and his view counts for more than most as Tournament Director.
Pete in his editorial gave credit to this Forum for having had "intelligent discussion" which had a direct influence on the changes he was able to come up with. So our debate, though heated at times, proved not to be just a lot of useless hot air ! ;)
Pete, you started this thread, so you could add a poll to the front of it: Either that, or I could start a new thread with a poll for you, but out of respect you should be given the opportunity to decide what wording you require.
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Post by Kevin Pringle (R.I.P.) on Nov 2, 2006 11:11:57 GMT
Pete, putting our obvious dissagreements aside, as a non subscriber but a player who is possibly effected by the changes to the ranking system and other 'forum viewers' this will also apply to. Having been actively taking part in the ranking discussions, is it too much to request that the 'new system how it works' is posted on the forum ?
If this has already been done then appologise for having missed it.
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Post by Q on Nov 2, 2006 11:16:26 GMT
Good comment Kev, the (unofficial) Fazza rankings are for all, not just the BBQ and I think that your suggestion is a good one. How about it Pete?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 2, 2006 12:35:25 GMT
That's fair comment, otherwise only subscribers should be 'subjected' to rankings!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2006 12:36:26 GMT
Shouldn't be too difficult for Pete to do.
And then once everyone is aquainted with the content, maybe then we'll give Pete our views in a poll - which really is the whole point of this thread.
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Post by fazza on Nov 3, 2006 8:52:07 GMT
It was, in fact, my intention to do this over the weekend, but here it is a day early (not sure what it will look like without tables):
A FULL EXPLANATION TO BE READ ONLY WHEN IT IS TIME FOR BED
As promised, there will be some changes to the ranking system from January 2007. The number of changes is admittedly more than originally planned, and much more radical to reflect some of the thoughts of others, but hopefully those interested must see them as a compromise. Be assured that all changes have been carefully thought through, but no additional changes will be forced upon me. I am sorry if that does not suit everybody, but that is the way it will be while I am running the ranking system, whether it becomes “official” or stays as it should be: “unofficial”. The original idea was “my baby” and no parent wants his child “spoilt rotten”. End of story! I am taking this opportunity of simplifying the system somewhat, although it may not sound that way. Some other ideas raised would have made it much more complicated, a move I could never condone. Some of the heated discussion on the rankings which raged on the forum after I withdrew was intelligent, and these points have definitely been taken on board, but a lot of it was not. Some of these points were highlighted in the last BBQ, so will not be discussed again in this edition. I will simply list the changes which will be implemented from January below, but the main changes to notice will be (a) the “capping” of ranking points awarded in some events, and (b) that the RP awarded in Opens now coincides with the Grand Prix points. It is not likely that any further changes will be made in the near future.
INTERNATIONAL MATCHES between ENGLAND, JERSEY and GUERNSEY
Win Bonuses: Each player will receive 1RP for every point which he/she has gained towards the team score; shared between players in the case of any Pairs games or drawn matches, so that the TOTAL “win bonus” ranking points awarded to the team concerned will be exactly equal to the match points gained by that team. Top-7 Bonus: The seven winning players with the best aggregate (in individual matches only) will receive “top-7 bonuses” ranging from 3.5RP to 0.5RP, but note that this applies ONLY if they win their match overall. Capping: No player will receive more than 7 RP in any international match, including any subsidiary Pairs matches, win bonuses or score bonuses.
COUNTY CHAMPIONSHIPS
Win Bonuses: Each player will receive 1RP for every leg won with the break, and 1.5RP for every leg won against the break, plus a bonus of 1RP for any player who wins their full quota of matches on the day. However, players who lose more games than they win get none. These points are reduced by 2RP for second division players and 4RP for third division players to reflect the perceived reduced standard of opponent. There may also be an adjustment necessary if one division plays many more matches than other divisions, e.g. if the format decided for division 3 requires the teams to play each other twice. Top-7 Bonus: The seven players with the best average overall will receive “top-7 bonuses” ranging from 3.5RP to 0.5RP, with no further reduction for players in the lower divisions. Any reserves used can qualify, provided they play a minimum of two matches, at least one of which must be against the break. Capping: No player will receive more than 12RP in this event, including score bonuses, but this may only apply in the Ladies County Championships under the current tournament formats being used, due to the likely number of matches played.
NATIONAL TEAM CHAMPIONSHIPS
Win Bonuses: Each player will receive 1RP for every leg won with the break, and 1.5RP for every leg won against the break, plus a bonus of 1RP for any player who wins their full quota of matches on the day. However, players who lose more games than they win get nothing. Top-7 Bonus: The seven players with the best average overall will receive “top-7 bonuses” ranging from 3.5RP to 0.5RP. Any reserves used can qualify, provided they play a minimum of two matches, at least one of which must be against the break. Capping: No player will receive more than 10RP in this event, including score bonuses.
ALL-ENGLAND INDIVIDUAL CHAMPIONSHIPS
Group Bonuses: Every player will receive 1RP for winning each leg played, plus a bonus 1RP for winning on aggregate over the 2 legs. This calculation will be adjusted by average (to the nearest 0.1) if any player does not play the usual four matches within their group. Top-4 Bonus: Winner will receive 10RP, runner-up 5RP, group runners-up 2RP. Capping: No player will receive more than 20RP in this event, including score bonuses.
GRAND PRIX FINALS
Group Bonuses: Every player will receive 0.5RP for winning each leg played, plus a bonus 0.5RP for winning on aggregate over the 2 legs. This calculation will be adjusted by average (to the nearest 0.1) if any player does not play the usual three matches in the group. Top-4 Bonus: Winner will receive 6RP, runner-up 3RP, losing semi-finalists 1RP. Capping: No player will receive more than 10RP in this event, including score bonuses.
ALL KNOCK-OUTS (no capping)
Winner / Runner-up / Losing SF / Losing QF / Last 16 / Last 32 / Last 64
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS
25RP 18RP 14RP 10RP 7RP 4RP 2RP
ALTERNATIVE RULES
10RP 7RP 5RP 3RP 1RP (provided at least 1 match won) 0 0
ALL OTHER OPEN INDIVIDUAL EVENTS
15RP 10RP 6RP 3RP 1RP (provided at least 1 match won) 0 0
WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP PAIRS & BRITISH OPEN PAIRS (EACH PLAYER)
10RP 7RP 5RP 3RP 1RP (provided at least 1 match won) 0 0
PLATE COMPETITIONS
Every qualifying Plate Competition will attract 2RP for the winner and 1RP for the runner-up. The only exception to this will be the World Championship which will attract 5RP for the winner and 2RP for the runner up.
SCORE BONUSES
In all qualifying events, including Plate Comps, each player will receive 0.1RP for every leg score of 8,000, and an extra 0.1RP for every additional full 3,000. This threshold starts at 5,000 for all matches in Jersey and Guernsey. This threshold starts at 5,000 for all Ladies-only events. This threshold starts at 2,000 for the Alternative Rules, with an extra 0.1RP for every additional full 500.
LADIES
Any RP gained by ladies in any open event are, of course, awarded in full in the main ranking list, but they are also halved (to the nearest 0.1RP), and added to those gained in Ladies-only events to comprise the Ladies Rankings. Ladies-only events attract the same points as their equivalent event above.
UP-DATING FACTOR
Every player loses the ranking points at the end of the calendar year after two full years have elapsed. That is, points from 2004 are removed at the end of 2006. This means that ranking points are applied for a minimum of two years and a maximum of three years.
MODIFICATIONS
Be assured that any modifications thought necessary will be carried out, with as much notification given as possible. Any change of format to any of these events may lead to the ranking tariff being changed.
So, now, just please keep a copy of these, so that I do not have to keep publishing it!
Whether you want a poll is up to you. I will not be voting.
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Post by fazza on Nov 4, 2006 14:47:47 GMT
So that seems to have put a halt on that discussion!
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Post by Q on Nov 4, 2006 15:54:52 GMT
I think everyone's still in bed reading it Pete ;D
Well done.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2006 19:04:29 GMT
Yes, Pete being a bit premature there (probably not for the first time. ;) )
A vote now would provide a useful and natural denoument to all the debate and discussions.
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Post by fazza on Nov 5, 2006 7:14:20 GMT
BNTE
No, Clive, I was a bit late when I was born, that's why I am 6ft 4in.
However, last night, come to think of it, I was a bit......( but I will not go into that )
BNTE
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