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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 16:05:19 GMT
Replace special ladies with a pairs competition. There's only 8 in special ladies so do you think you could suddenly get loads of ladies to suddenly enter? I don't see why not: 18 ladies took part this year in the National Mixed Doubles. By comparison, the Special Ladies Open seems to have lost its allure - a major factor in undoubtedly the travelling involved to Didcot, but may also be due to the strength of the top ladies, others not thinking they have a chance. So the prospect of taking part in a national competition with a more realistic chance of doing well might add a new dimension and attract a few more ladies than you get otherwise. Part of the fun being in organising yourself a partner (as seems popular with Bournemouth each year). As Oxford Ladies are strong and Sussex/Surrey ladies are strong you could even zone it north and south with a separate final. Up to you ladies to discuss, as Chrissie has hinted elsewhere that Special Ladies may not take place in 2017: I fully admire all Ladies taking part but I state that from next year the Special Ladies Competition is not viable. |
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Post by JB on Oct 15, 2016 16:27:58 GMT
Perhaps changing where the comps are held won't help but surely it would be fairer.
Just as an example from a personal point of view it looks like I will have 3 trips to Didcot this year. That equates to approx 600 miles and approx 15 hours of driving. That is why I have to pick and choose which to go to beacause of the time and expense.
If (depending on qualification) I entered all the comps I was eligible to enter (and there are some I would like to that I never have) it would mean 7 trips to Didcot . That's 1400 miles and 35 hours of driving.
Is it unreasonable to ask them to be spread across different Counties?
it would be interesting to hear from northern Counties their thoughts on having to travel South for some competitions
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Post by BB Warrior on Oct 15, 2016 16:29:05 GMT
I agree with 90% of Jean's suggestions, with a couple of amendments: replace with a BIOC Ladies Pairs (there used to be one) and hold in Surrey Agree with Jean that it would be highly unlikely to get sufficient entries to justify running a Ladies Pairs competition.... plus, although holding the new competition in Surrey would probably get more entries, it would be as unfair on the Ladies based in the northern counties as it currently is for the players in the south holding all the competitions at Didcot. There are only TWO competitions that are exclusively held for the Ladies to give them a chance to qualify for the Ladies Grand Prix, the BIOC Ladies that has been held in Sussex for the last couple of years and the Special Ladies held at Didcot, it would therefore be unfair to eliminate one of those and only keep the competition in the South.  give to Northants (day before the Open) and make it 4-Pin If Northants intend to continue to run the 4-pin day in the future I think that it should be included as a "Ranking" competition but it should not replace the Alternative Rules.... they are 2 totally different versions of the game.  this is supposed to be 'touring the counties' so could be passed to a different one next year. I understand that another county will be asking to host this next season so it is likely that it will be moved to another county which was the original intention that it should move around the country.  At some stage any popular suggestions (ie those with a seconder) need to go onto the AGM 2016 thread. These are not changes to the AEBBA "Rules" that are being discussed here so would not require a seconder to enable them to be discussed at the AGM this year. Given the lack of numbers at some of the competitions, I am sure that this will already be on the agenda and, hopefully, the AEBBA Committee will be looking at these posts on the forum and also looking at what can be done in the future.  |
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Post by JB on Oct 15, 2016 16:56:16 GMT
I think I was trying to be fair with the 2 ladies only comps by holding one in the south and one in the north.
If a doubles comp replaced the special ladies and was held st Didcot do you think that anymore players from the south would travel up to Didcot for it? I doubt it.
We're saying travelling to Didcot is what puts us off entering but you would get exactly the same reaction if all the comps were held down South.
Perhaps the only answer is to try and find somewhere central but this would need someone with the time and enthusiasm to do this
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 18:28:46 GMT
These are not changes to the AEBBA "Rules" that are being discussed here so would not require a seconder to enable them to be discussed at the AGM this year. Given the lack of numbers at some of the competitions, I am sure that this will already be on the agenda and, hopefully, the AEBBA Committee will be looking at these posts on the forum and also looking at what can be done in the future. Hopefully then it won't all be in vain ! There seem to be many acknowledging the symptoms but less than a handful of us offering practical solutions ! It looks like the U25's will be going ahead with just two this year: this has happened before without anyone opposing it. But as has been said before, not many youngsters seem to be taking up the game at the moment and hopefully a new crop will come through shortly. |
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Post by milhouse on Oct 15, 2016 20:28:36 GMT
A lot of talk about cost to enter these competitions and now a popular thought seems to be for Northants to do a national ranking 4-pin open on the same weekend as their Open.... in the middle of August.... at peak holiday time..... where everything is more expensive......  |
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Post by Coleman Jnr on Oct 15, 2016 20:32:56 GMT
With regards to the under 25s, would upping the age be an option? I personally would of wanted to defend the title this year but unfortunately will be too old. I think we are getting to a stage where we will need to accept the inevitable because we are haemorrhaging numbers of players on a local level, let alone at a national level. If I received a penny for however many times I've heard the old guard saying "I've had enough, this is my last season" I'd be minted. I don't think moving the competitions would make much a difference because we will still have players not willing to travel, except this time it would be from a different part of the country. As much as it pains me to say it, it's a dying game. Providing the age change would allow me to play in all for this! To be honest I would have suggested this ages ago but didn't want it to seem like I was wanting it to be changed just so I could play! |
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Post by BigPhilMac on Oct 16, 2016 11:12:17 GMT
With regards to the under 25s, would upping the age be an option? I personally would of wanted to defend the title this year but unfortunately will be too old. I think we are getting to a stage where we will need to accept the inevitable because we are haemorrhaging numbers of players on a local level, let alone at a national level. If I received a penny for however many times I've heard the old guard saying "I've had enough, this is my last season" I'd be minted. I don't think moving the competitions would make much a difference because we will still have players not willing to travel, except this time it would be from a different part of the country. As much as it pains me to say it, it's a dying game. Providing the age change would allow me to play in all for this! To be honest I would have suggested this ages ago but didn't want it to seem like I was wanting it to be changed just so I could play! I want the age changed so I could play it again! There's nothing wrong with having personal interests when it comes to issues in this context. |
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Post by bobhall on Oct 16, 2016 12:13:12 GMT
Providing the age change would allow me to play in all for this! To be honest I would have suggested this ages ago but didn't want it to seem like I was wanting it to be changed just so I could play! I want the age changed so I could play it again! There's nothing wrong with having personal interests when it comes to issues in this context. In regards to the under 25's I believe the question we need to ask is how many under 25's are there in Oxford and surrounding areas and how many are there in Sussex as with Sussex there are a lot more leagues so maybe we would get more entries. Now the question would then be will the oxford entries travel to Sussex |
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JOZIL
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Post by JOZIL on Oct 16, 2016 12:30:10 GMT
I want the age changed so I could play it again! There's nothing wrong with having personal interests when it comes to issues in this context. In regards to the under 25's I believe the question we need to ask is how many under 25's are there in Oxford and surrounding areas and how many are there in Sussex as with Sussex there are a lot more leagues so maybe we would get more entries. Now the question would then be will the oxford entries travel to Sussex i'm sure its inter league that night so its hard to travel up there play and come back me and Tj and rick were gonna do under 25s and they will play over 50's but if we are tight for time Nick will have 3 players away and its all drawn |
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Post by bobhall on Oct 16, 2016 14:27:27 GMT
In regards to the under 25's I believe the question we need to ask is how many under 25's are there in Oxford and surrounding areas and how many are there in Sussex as with Sussex there are a lot more leagues so maybe we would get more entries. Now the question would then be will the oxford entries travel to Sussex i'm sure its inter league that night so its hard to travel up there play and come back me and Tj and rick were gonna do under 25s and they will play over 50's but if we are tight for time Nick will have 3 players away and its all drawn But I'm on about the future of the tournement not this one coming up as its too late to change the venue |
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JOZIL
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Post by JOZIL on Oct 16, 2016 14:59:37 GMT
i'm sure its inter league that night so its hard to travel up there play and come back me and Tj and rick were gonna do under 25s and they will play over 50's but if we are tight for time Nick will have 3 players away and its all drawn But I'm on about the future of the tournement not this one coming up as its too late to change the venue should be back at reading |
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Post by JB on Oct 16, 2016 21:31:52 GMT
Had a chat with the ladies that were at Oxford today
The following were the ideas that were put forward and agreed between us they would be a way forward to help keep the ladies tournaments going.
The BIOC to stay as it is in July in Sussex
Everyone agreed that they would like the Special Ladies to continue. Playing this alongside the Team Champs even with only 8 there today it is 8 more people on the day. The suggestion this was moved to Bucks was well accepted. Unfortunately I forgot to chat with Dawn to see if she thought this could be done
Now for the one that may not go down well! People's thoughts would be great
We all thought the County Champs should be in 2 Divisions played on the same day (it will be interesting to see how many are there for the Division 2 this year as at the moment there's only 1 team saying they are going)
BUT! The Ladies teams (i.e. 1 Sussex 1 Oxford and perhaps 1 Surrey and any other County that can get a ladies team) also play in this, obviously put in div 2 to start with. Oxford struggled to get 2 teams this year and its highly likely they will only get 1 next year. It's a long way to go to just play a Sussex v Oxford game. All the ladies there today thought it a good idea.
Only really discussed the ladies only comps today. My earlier post about rearranging some of the comps has my thoughts and ideas
Would love some sensible feedback on these ideas.
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Post by BigPhilMac on Oct 16, 2016 22:11:35 GMT
I want the age changed so I could play it again! There's nothing wrong with having personal interests when it comes to issues in this context. In regards to the under 25's I believe the question we need to ask is how many under 25's are there in Oxford and surrounding areas and how many are there in Sussex as with Sussex there are a lot more leagues so maybe we would get more entries. Now the question would then be will the oxford entries travel to Sussex There's probably two under 25s now in oxford as far as I'm aware, there's probably more playing out of Northants. Which is why I said about upping the age. If it was say under 28s for example you could have the likes of Stephen, Craig Mace and myself enter again. I personally would make the journey to Sussex but can't speak for others. The thing is, I think the whole thing about it being staged in Oxford or Sussex becomes a false dichotomy. It'd make more sense to find somewhere centrally but as Jean says, it's all about finding the time and enthusiasm. |
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Post by BB Warrior on Oct 17, 2016 8:27:31 GMT
Some interesting suggestions from Jean and good to hear that the Ladies are looking at different options and want to keep the competitions going in the future....  Everyone agreed that they would like the Special Ladies to continue. Playing this alongside the Team Champs even with only 8 there today it is 8 more people on the day. The suggestion this was moved to Bucks was well accepted. Unfortunately I forgot to chat with Dawn to see if she thought this could be done I believe that AEBBA have an agreement with Didcot Conservative Club where part of the "deal" for the tables to be stored there is that all of the existing AEBBA Competitions that are played there will continue to be held there.... so that is something that would need to be discussed by the AEBBA Committee and Didcot Club.  Jean, would be I be correct in thinking that this suggestion.... Now for the one that may not go down well! People's thoughts would be great We all thought the County Champs should be in 2 Divisions played on the same day (it will be interesting to see how many are there for the Division 2 this year as at the moment there's only 1 team saying they are going) BUT! The Ladies teams (i.e. 1 Sussex 1 Oxford and perhaps 1 Surrey and any other County that can get a ladies team) also play in this, obviously put in div 2 to start with. Oxford struggled to get 2 teams this year and its highly likely they will only get 1 next year. It's a long way to go to just play a Sussex v Oxford game. All the ladies there today thought it a good idea. ....would be based on acceptance of your previous suggestion.... County Champs div 1 and 2 & ladies. Probably a bit radical but I think that only one team from each County should be allowed to enter. Both div 1 and div 2 could be played on the same day. If feasible the ladies could also be played on this day. I would suggest this played at Didcot .... meaning only ONE team per county in the County Championships plus the Ladies teams? If so, based on the counties that took part last year, there could be the line-up for the competition:- Division 1 Sussex Kent Oxon Northants Berks Surrey (relegated this year) Division 2 Hampshire Bucks Sussex Ladies Oxon Ladies Surrey Ladies "County 5" Ladies (although that would need to become "County 7") Suffolk would also be eligible to enter a team, as would Yorkshire if the do become affiliated to AEBBA has been mentioned elsewhere on the Forum. I certainly agree that the Ladies do need more opponents to keep their side of the game going and this suggestion would certainly achieve that, however I am not sure if both divisions could be played on the same day as I think that it would take 10 hours to play 2 Divisions of 6 in the current format of 7-a-side which is probably too long. It also raises the question of how the Men's and Ladies Individual Competitions could be played and also does it benefit AEBBA by including 3 or 4 Ladies teams and losing 4 of the current Open County B teams? Perhaps including the Ladies teams into the "Open" Championships and bringing back Division 3 could be an alternative? Based on the current (and prospective) teams this year, that could give the following line-up of entries.... Division 1 Sussex Kent Oxon Northants Berks Surrey (relegated this year, to be replaced by winners of Division 2) Division 2 Sussex B Hampshire Bucks Oxon B Kent B Berks B Division 3 Sussex Ladies (Current Ladies Champions to be in Division 2 replacing the team that finishes last this year) Oxon Ladies Surrey Ladies "County 7" Ladies Team Suffolk Yorkshire Promotion and relegation to continue in current format which would give the Ladies Teams the same opportunities to go up to higher divisions based on performances. The Ladies Individual competition could be played alongside Division 1 as it currently is, with the Men's Individual played on the same day as Division 3. |
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Post by JB on Oct 17, 2016 9:06:13 GMT
When I said 1 team per county I was thinking of 2 divisions.
3 Divisions including B teams looks like a really good idea.
As there would be an extra weekend (div 3) at Didcot that would mean the Team Champs/ special ladies could possibly be moved to Bucks
Still think the possibility of both Ladies and Men's individual could be played together alongside over 50/60's?
Don't know why but I like the idea of both the individuals playing on the same day
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Post by milhouse on Oct 17, 2016 10:08:00 GMT
If the ladies are happy to amalgamate with the mens county teams, then i really like the idea Dave has proposed with going to 3 divisions.
I also like the idea of both the AE Singles being played together - would this take entries away from the over 50's/60's though? As i do not think you should be allowed to play in another competition on the same day as i think this would be unfair.
Also, looking at other posts on here, maybe the Under 25's should be changed to Under 30's ?
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Post by bobhall on Oct 17, 2016 10:08:10 GMT
Some interesting suggestions from Jean and good to hear that the Ladies are looking at different options and want to keep the competitions going in the future.... Everyone agreed that they would like the Special Ladies to continue. Playing this alongside the Team Champs even with only 8 there today it is 8 more people on the day. The suggestion this was moved to Bucks was well accepted. Unfortunately I forgot to chat with Dawn to see if she thought this could be done I believe that AEBBA have an agreement with Didcot Conservative Club where part of the "deal" for the tables to be stored there is that all of the existing AEBBA Competitions that are played there will continue to be held there.... so that is something that would need to be discussed by the AEBBA Committee and Didcot Club. Jean, would be I be correct in thinking that this suggestion.... Now for the one that may not go down well! People's thoughts would be great We all thought the County Champs should be in 2 Divisions played on the same day (it will be interesting to see how many are there for the Division 2 this year as at the moment there's only 1 team saying they are going) BUT! The Ladies teams (i.e. 1 Sussex 1 Oxford and perhaps 1 Surrey and any other County that can get a ladies team) also play in this, obviously put in div 2 to start with. Oxford struggled to get 2 teams this year and its highly likely they will only get 1 next year. It's a long way to go to just play a Sussex v Oxford game. All the ladies there today thought it a good idea. ....would be based on acceptance of your previous suggestion.... County Champs div 1 and 2 & ladies. Probably a bit radical but I think that only one team from each County should be allowed to enter. Both div 1 and div 2 could be played on the same day. If feasible the ladies could also be played on this day. I would suggest this played at Didcot .... meaning only ONE team per county in the County Championships plus the Ladies teams? If so, based on the counties that took part last year, there could be the line-up for the competition:- Division 1 Sussex Kent Oxon Northants Berks Surrey (relegated this year) Division 2 Hampshire Bucks Sussex Ladies Oxon Ladies Surrey Ladies "County 5" Ladies (although that would need to become "County 7") Suffolk would also be eligible to enter a team, as would Yorkshire if the do become affiliated to AEBBA has been mentioned elsewhere on the Forum. I certainly agree that the Ladies do need more opponents to keep their side of the game going and this suggestion would certainly achieve that, however I am not sure if both divisions could be played on the same day as I think that it would take 10 hours to play 2 Divisions of 6 in the current format of 7-a-side which is probably too long. It also raises the question of how the Men's and Ladies Individual Competitions could be played and also does it benefit AEBBA by including 3 or 4 Ladies teams and losing 4 of the current Open County B teams? Perhaps including the Ladies teams into the "Open" Championships and bringing back Division 3 could be an alternative? Based on the current (and prospective) teams this year, that could give the following line-up of entries.... Division 1 Sussex Kent Oxon Northants Berks Surrey (relegated this year, to be replaced by winners of Division 2) Division 2 Sussex B Hampshire Bucks Oxon B Kent B Berks B Division 3 Sussex Ladies (Current Ladies Champions to be in Division 2 replacing the team that finishes last this year) Oxon Ladies Surrey Ladies "County 7" Ladies Team Suffolk Yorkshire Promotion and relegation to continue in current format which would give the Ladies Teams the same opportunities to go up to higher divisions based on performances. The Ladies Individual competition could be played alongside Division 1 as it currently is, with the Men's Individual played on the same day as Division 3. now this idea of dave's looks fantastic and in my eyes would be the way forward lets hope more people like the ideas i would certainly not want there to be only 1 mens team as in sussex the standard is so so strong i think alot of players would never get the chance to play including me |
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Post by bobhall on Oct 17, 2016 10:09:31 GMT
If the ladies are happy to amalgamate with the mens county teams, then i really like the idea Dave has proposed with going to 3 divisions. I also like the idea of both the AE Singles being played together - would this take entries away from the over 50's/60's though? As i do not think you should be allowed to play in another competition on the same day as i think this would be unfair. Also, looking at other posts on here, maybe the Under 25's should be changed to Under 30's ? can we make it under 31's so i can play in the next years tournament :) |
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Post by JB on Oct 17, 2016 10:30:54 GMT
It would be interesting to hear from more ladies. Yesterday there were only a few of us there but between the Oxford & Sussex ladies that were there all thought it would be a good idea.
This year there were 2 Oxford & 2 Sussex. Both teams struggled last minute to get 10 players there. If amalgamated it would be a team of 7 so would probably make it much easier to get the players.
I will try and speak to more of the Sussex players and get some more views.
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Post by bobhall on Oct 17, 2016 12:08:14 GMT
It would be interesting to hear from more ladies. Yesterday there were only a few of us there but between the Oxford & Sussex ladies that were there all thought it would be a good idea. This year there were 2 Oxford & 2 Sussex. Both teams struggled last minute to get 10 players there. If amalgamated it would be a team of 7 so would probably make it much easier to get the players. I will try and speak to more of the Sussex players and get some more views. Hi jean maybe send an email out to as many lady players as either you or dave have in your email i am also happy to ask many of them there thoughts on the matter to try and drive barbilliards forward and not backwards |
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Post by BB Warrior on Oct 17, 2016 12:41:22 GMT
Also, looking at other posts on here, maybe the Under 25's should be changed to Under 30's ? can we make it under 31's so i can play in the next years tournament :) Much as I understand the desire to get more people to enter the Under 25's competition, I believe that the reason there is an age restriction is to give more NEW young players the chance to take part in their own national competition.... not to simply increase the age limit to allow the same players to take part every year!  Personally, I always liked it when the Over 50's and 60's was played on the same day as the Mixed Pairs as it meant that I could take part in more than one competition. Obviously, it is not ideal when people keep having to play the same tables but, given the option of either that happening or the competition ceasing to exist due to lack of numbers, I know which choice that most players would prefer. I also feel that AEBBA should look to run another competition over the course of the Bournemouth weekend, after all there are more players at that competition than at any other during the year apart from the world championships. The tables are already in place and players are also there.... the Pairs competition is normally finished by early afternoon on the Sunday so another competition could be played then or even on the Friday / Saturday evening for those that would rather play than take part in the quiz / karaoke. |
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Post by BigPhilMac on Oct 17, 2016 13:43:25 GMT
can we make it under 31's so i can play in the next years tournament :) Much as I understand the desire to get more people to enter the Under 25's competition, I believe that the reason there is an age restriction is to give more NEW young players the chance to take part in their own national competition.... not to simply increase the age limit to allow the same players to take part every year! Personally, I always liked it when the Over 50's and 60's was played on the same day as the Mixed Pairs as it meant that I could take part in more than one competition. Obviously, it is not ideal when people keep having to play the same tables but, given the option of either that happening or the competition ceasing to exist due to lack of numbers, I know which choice that most players would prefer. I also feel that AEBBA should look to run another competition over the course of the Bournemouth weekend, after all there are more players at that competition than at any other during the year apart from the world championships. The tables are already in place and players are also there.... the Pairs competition is normally finished by early afternoon on the Sunday so another competition could be played then or even on the Friday / Saturday evening for those that would rather play than take part in the quiz / karaoke. The age restriction being able to stand as it is is fine, as long as it adheres to the premise that there are plenty of young players taking up the game. Unfortunately that isn't the case. We were fortunate in Oxford that 3-5 years ago we had a slight influx in young players (influx in the context of not having many players in the leagues to begin with). But either through lack of interest or those players reaching the golden oldies age of 25, we are back to square one again. To make it an under 30s competition, I don't think would be a bad thing because that probably constitutes a young player in the context of bar billiards. |
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Post by JB on Oct 17, 2016 13:57:39 GMT
Regarding the under 25's I agree with Dave
In Sussex we play an under 30's. this was brought in in memory of Gina Sherratt who was always encouraging and helping youngsters.
Unfortunately we had County/England players between the ages of 25 & 30 so the youngsters who we were trying to help and get involved didn't stand a chance and sometimes saw massive scores put against them.
Another thought of mine is to just have Over 50's. it seems strange to me that everyone in the over 60 also play in the over 50's
I think the idea was to give some people more games?
If it was just over 50's it could be played in groups rather than a straight knockout which would give people more games
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Post by Coleman Jnr on Oct 17, 2016 14:02:53 GMT
It does seem there is some good responses to why competitions are failing, with the AEBBA AGM right round the corner I assume that for any of these changes to take place, that proposals are required?
So obviously one that I am interested in being the Under 25's, would it not be worth proposing that it is raised to say under 30's, and then if this is carried through then look at quantity of players and their location and then try and tag this onto another event. For instance if Sussex had the largest number of entries, could this be held in Sussex and added somehow onto one of the weekends when they have the tables? Number of entries is solved, date time and venue would be sorted also. The largest entries would either be Sussex or Oxford so surely which ever county doesn't get to hold the tournament I'm sure the others could all make their way to it together and save on cost for travelling.
I do personally think the calendar needs a good shuffle around as I only live an hour from Oxford but it does feel like I spend every weekend there at the minute (Nothing against Oxford or Didcot), but just thinking if somehow we could change the schedule so that some of these tournaments are earlier in the year it may get more entries and also free up some of the lack of space earlier in the year for some of the opens.
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Post by JB on Oct 17, 2016 14:43:50 GMT
Just going to try and summarise some of the suggestions as at sometime these need to be put forward for discussion at the AGM. Am I right in thinking it's not actually rule changes that are needed?
1. The Under 25's become Under 30's
2. The County Champs become 3 Divisions to include ladies teams (format for Divisions to be discussed if accepted) - Didcot
3. Men's Individual to be played on Div 3 day
4. Ladies Individual to be played on Div 1 day
5. Team Champs and special ladies possibly moved to Bucks
6. BIOC Ladies held in Sussex (as it is now)
7. Alternate rules (as it is now) - Didcot
8. Under 25's (poss under 30's) with over 50's/60's (poss just under 50's) - Didcot
9. Off The Spot (Apparently moving around Counties)
10. Mixed Pairs -Surrey (as it is now)
11. Grand Prix -Didcot
With the above I have tried to do it so people who want to play in the Comps can without being excluded because of possible clashes with other comps on the same day.
Other suggestions about moving comps around are.
1. Under 25's (30's) played in Sussex on BIOC Ladies day
2. Over 50's/60's (over 50's) played alongside Men's & Ladies Individual
3. One comp to be moved to Bournemouth weekend. My thought on this is what about the Alternative Rules? It's a different version of the game so possibly might not be too much advantage of playing the tables? I have never played it so don't really know. Could possibly be played on Friday night and finished on Sunday?
Phew think that's it! Sorry if I've forgotten anything
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Post by NigelS on Oct 17, 2016 14:53:21 GMT
If so, based on the counties that took part last year, there could be the line-up for the competition:- Division 1 Sussex Kent Oxon Northants Berks Surrey (relegated this year) Division 2 Hampshire Bucks Sussex Ladies Oxon Ladies Surrey Ladies "County 5" Ladies (although that would need to become "County 7") Suffolk would also be eligible to enter a team, as would Yorkshire if the do become affiliated to AEBBA has been mentioned elsewhere on the Forum. I certainly agree that the Ladies do need more opponents to keep their side of the game going and this suggestion would certainly achieve that, however I am not sure if both divisions could be played on the same day as I think that it would take 10 hours to play 2 Divisions of 6 in the current format of 7-a-side which is probably too long. It also raises the question of how the Men's and Ladies Individual Competitions could be played and also does it benefit AEBBA by including 3 or 4 Ladies teams and losing 4 of the current Open County B teams? Perhaps including the Ladies teams into the "Open" Championships and bringing back Division 3 could be an alternative? Based on the current (and prospective) teams this year, that could give the following line-up of entries.... Division 1 Sussex Kent Oxon Northants Berks Surrey (relegated this year, to be replaced by winners of Division 2) Division 2 Sussex B Hampshire Bucks Oxon B Kent B Berks B Division 3 Sussex Ladies (Current Ladies Champions to be in Division 2 replacing the team that finishes last this year) Oxon Ladies Surrey Ladies "County 7" Ladies Team Suffolk Yorkshire Promotion and relegation to continue in current format which would give the Ladies Teams the same opportunities to go up to higher divisions based on performances. The Ladies Individual competition could be played alongside Division 1 as it currently is, with the Men's Individual played on the same day as Division 3. I think this idea is the best way forward ie to include the ladies in the county championships. The problem I see with 3 divisions is that are we going to get all 18 teams to commit and it would take three weekends to play so we still have the same amount of weekends taken. One weekend for 2 divisions is too long I agree Dave. SO how about two divisions of 7 teams. You could still play the All England Mens and LAdies on the two weekend - I think it would be 8 1/2 hours play which I think acceptable for an 11.30 start so 8pm finish. But that would only make 14 teams, so we would have to prioritise the A teams and Ladies teams maybe at the expense of B sides. Regular A sides are Sussex Oxon Kent Bucks Berks Northants Surrey Hants.....making 8 Regular Ladies teams (bear in mind they would no need 7 so think Surrey may struggle) Sussex Oxon....making 10 So then maybe 3 B sides (4 played in 2015) and one ladies select side to make 14. Problems (or should I say things to consider) How do we choose which B sides year on year take part? Who picks the select side? A male player may need to choose between the all england singles or county team if in div 2 A lady player may have to choose between the all ladies england singles or county team if (heaven forbid....me sexist no ) in div 1 If we do this there is very little going back and the ladies county champs would be no more and will ladies be put off playing the men If Yorkshire/ Suffolk want to enter will they take priority? If Surrey Ladies want back in how do we accomodate them? Benefits We cut down one weekend and have 4 tournaments played in 2. 7 team division mean 6 legs for everyone which is much better value. As I say this is worth running with but only with proper rules put in place. We cant all just vote it in at the AGM with considering what we do if we have 14 sides or more or if we are going to allow select teams and who picks them. |
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Post by JB on Oct 17, 2016 15:12:28 GMT
Do you think there should be a ladies County Select team? I'm not saying no but me being me then thinks there should then be a men's select 7 for anyone who struggles to get a team.
What about the individuals being played at Bournemouth? Prob not coz you would probably have to miss a year.
We chatted yesterday about playing the men and the consensus was "why not we play men week in week out in our leagues and would definitely enjoy the challenge and have different opposition. "
Obviously I can only speak on behalf of the ladies that were there yesterday
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Post by JB on Oct 17, 2016 15:30:46 GMT
I also read this which Dave posted (sorry whenever I do a quote it don't work!)
I believe that AEBBA have an agreement with Didcot Conservative Club where part of the "deal" for the tables to be stored there is that all of the existing AEBBA Competitions that are played there will continue to be held there.... so that is something that would need to be discussed by the AEBBA Committee and Didcot Club.
If that's the case and there's a possibility of perhaps taking away one of the comps (Team Champs special ladies ) would we need to replace this with something else e.g division 3
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Post by BB Warrior on Oct 17, 2016 16:24:21 GMT
I think this idea is the best way forward ie to include the ladies in the county championships. The problem I see with 3 divisions is that are we going to get all 18 teams to commit and it would take three weekends to play so we still have the same amount of weekends taken. One weekend for 2 divisions is too long I agree Dave. SO how about two divisions of 7 teams. You could still play the All England Mens and LAdies on the two weekend - I think it would be 8 1/2 hours play which I think acceptable for an 11.30 start so 8pm finish. But that would only make 14 teams, so we would have to prioritise the A teams and Ladies teams maybe at the expense of B sides. Regular A sides are Sussex Oxon Kent Bucks Berks Northants Surrey Hants.....making 8 Regular Ladies teams (bear in mind they would no need 7 so think Surrey may struggle) Sussex Oxon....making 10 So then maybe 3 B sides (4 played in 2015) and one ladies select side to make 14. Problems (or should I say things to consider) How do we choose which B sides year on year take part? Who picks the select side? A male player may need to choose between the all england singles or county team if in div 2 A lady player may have to choose between the all ladies england singles or county team if (heaven forbid....me sexist no ) in div 1 If we do this there is very little going back and the ladies county champs would be no more and will ladies be put off playing the men If Yorkshire/ Suffolk want to enter will they take priority? If Surrey Ladies want back in how do we accomodate them? Benefits We cut down one weekend and have 4 tournaments played in 2. 7 team division mean 6 legs for everyone which is much better value. As I say this is worth running with but only with proper rules put in place. We cant all just vote it in at the AGM with considering what we do if we have 14 sides or more or if we are going to allow select teams and who picks them. Although I can see the benefits of this suggestion Nigel, I am not sure that I would be in favour of anything that means that potentially some teams that want to take part could be excluded by reducing it down to just 14 teams. As you correctly point out, there are no guarantees that we would have enough teams to make up 3 divisions but we surely have to allow for the number of teams will have played this year (8 "A" Teams, potentially 4 "B" teams) before adding the 2 Ladies teams (Sussex and Oxon) that seem likely to be able to raise at least 7 players. If you then add to that the "Ladies County Select" team, the chance that Surrey could raise a "Mixed" B Team (with ladies and men playing, as the Ladies would no longer have their own competition) and possible addition of Yorkshire and Suffolk (unlikely I think, but you never know?) and you would end up with 17 teams that want to take part. Who decides which teams would not be allowed to play?  This does need to be considered carefully before any decisions are made as we all know how hard it can be to revert back to something different if we get it wrong now. |
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