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Post by Chris on Sept 20, 2016 18:01:19 GMT
Dear All It may be useful to start a separate thread re discussion of the viability of AEBBA events. I could propose 1 answer that would help as an example but NOT as something we should do - I am just giving an exemplar and careful thought of combinations of events would need to be looked at before any decisions. We could combine the Triangle, Over 60's, 50's and under 25's as one example. Limit entries but ensure a sustainable event that finishes at a realistic time given travelling distances. Ensure players are fully aware that opponents may have previously played a table which is totally accepted by all, e.g. A player that does the triangle, Over 60's and over 50's. Let's just give some focussed solutions prior to the AGM. Them some proposals. Chris  |
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Post by Ros on Sept 22, 2016 10:54:59 GMT
There are several problems that are causing the collapse of entries to AEBBA events - they are Didcot, Dicot, Didcot and Didcot.
It is a horrendous journey, especially coming back on a Sunday night and it is also a very costly journey. The venue is hardly cheerful when you're there too: frequently extremely cold.
When the PO club at Reading closed, we all thought that Didcot was a temporary solution and I (like many others, I imagine) did my best to continue to support AEBBA events.
What really upset me was that last year's AGM was also held at Didcot - that to me was really taking the p*** and I decided that I would not be able to attend, having spent around £250 attending AEBBA events there in the previous 6 weeks. I do hope that this year's AGM will be somewhere a bit more central.
The answer is not to alternate events between North and South - this is just sticking plaster which just spreads the misery a bit, but there will still be people that are simply not prepared to travel long distances, even if it is less frequently.
To me it is simple, the answer has to be that we need to find a venue somewhere in the Reading/Bracknell area that will become a new headquarters, even if we have to pay a bit more for storage of the tables.
I wish that I was closer to Berkshire or had some local knowledge of the area and could help to find such a venue.
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Post by milhouse on Sept 22, 2016 12:17:34 GMT
Quite a bit shocked with that post to be honest Ros!
Let's dissect the comments....
Didcot is cold - well, quite a lot of people said the same about the PO club, so hardly an excuse for not turning up!
Didcot helped out the AEBBA tremendously when the PO club closed and there were huge problems of where to store the tables and keeping them on the van was just not something which should be done, so for them to help out AND NOT CHARGE was great for the AEBBA. To this end, Didcot has basically become the new HQ of the AEBBA, so having the AGM there makes sense. Question - where else could it have been held with no charge?
To say the answer is simple is being very small minded as the answer to everything is simple if there are unlimited resources (If we said there would be 10k prize money for the alternate rules in a couple of weeks, how many people would then say they could make the trip?!) ! It is easy to say about moving things to Reading/Bracknell but someone needs to do this work! Who lives in that area who could do this? The main problem is how many venues have Bar Billiard tables in that area and which of those would be able to store the tables and hold competitions there as AE do, i would say only 1 or 2 - if that.
Rant over!
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Post by Ros on Sept 22, 2016 12:38:10 GMT
Mark - I am very grateful to Didcot for taking us in at short notice, but my understanding was that it was never meant to be permanent.
I believe that Didcot do charge us for table storage now?
I agree that the venue being cold is not a good reason for failing to go - but the distance certainly is and it is not pleasant to drive for up to 3 hours and then walk into a very cold room.
You ask where else we could hold an AGM with no charge - it only needs a smallish room and there are thousands of restaurants and pubs that will happily provide a function room for nothing if there is the promise of a number of diners and drinkers. Failing that, there are hundreds of village halls that can be hired for very small amounts.
A new tournament venue does not have to have a bar billiards table there already - they just have to have storage room and sufficient space to be able to hold tournaments. All around the country there are clubs that have large premises that are struggling to survive.
I appreciate that finding a new venue requires someone with the time to do it - I would gladly give up my time to do this if I were closer or had some local knowledge.
IMHO if Didcot remains the national headquarters, we will soon have to give up the idea of national competitions - will Didcot still be willing to store the tables then?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2016 13:46:42 GMT
Is it worth asking Cressex Community Centre if they were able to offer the storage facility, and if so the cost ?
I found the journey to Cressex for the Bucks relatively painless and was impressed with the spaciousness of the hall.
I reckon High Wycombe is about as central to the bar billiards world as you could get, these days.
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Post by BB Warrior on Sept 22, 2016 14:45:04 GMT
Is it worth asking Cressex Community Centre if they were able to offer the storage facility, and if so the cost ? I found the journey to Cressex for the Bucks relatively painless and was impressed with the spaciousness of the hall. I reckon High Wycombe is about as central to the bar billiards world as you could get, these days. The Cressex Centre is about 20 miles nearer to where I live in Sussex and, according to google maps, the journey would take about 25 minutes less than the journey to Didcot.... subject, of course, to the vagaries of the M25! So, maybe that would be better for players in the south, maybe not?  The points that Ros has made about the journey to Didcot are certainly ones that I have heard from many people based in Surrey and Sussex in the last couple of years and, sadly, I was not surprised when I heard that Surrey would not have a ladies county team this year. I do understand that must frustrate the Oxford ladies and certainly appreciate the efforts that they make to attend the Mixed Pairs and BIOC Ladies Competitions that are held in Surrey and Sussex.... I also think that it is a shame that Surrey can not raise a ladies team that are prepared to travel for ONE event a year.  However, if the situation was reversed and all of the AEBBA events were held in the southern region every year, we would probably be getting the same comments from the Oxford, Northants, Bucks and Berkshire players.... so either way it does not solve the problem. Since the main problem does seem to surround the Ladies events, the suggestion by Mark of a North v South challenge could be something that would enable the competition to continue and allow all the ladies that want to play the chance to take part, definitely worth AEBBA considering that I feel.  With regards to the other events that are due to be held (Alternative Rules, Over 50's & 60's and Under 25's) is it worth considering playing these at the Bournemouth Pairs weekend? There are usually more players there for that competition than any other during the year outside of the World Championships, but there is also a lot of "spare time" and I feel that it could be possible to include at least one more event into the weekend for those that wanted to play? (Yes, I know that the SOCIAL side of Bournemouth is the main reason that some players go there even more than actually playing, but for those that like to play it could be a thought?) To answer one final question raised by Mark.... It is easy to say about moving things to Reading/Bracknell but someone needs to do this work! Who lives in that area who could do this? The main problem is how many venues have Bar Billiard tables in that area and which of those would be able to store the tables and hold competitions there as AE do, i would say only 1 or 2 - if that. .... the AEBBA Secretary and AEBBA President both live in that area! It would be interesting to hear if they know of any suitable venues in that area....  |
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Post by milhouse on Sept 22, 2016 15:17:49 GMT
Nice idea Dave about the possibly of maybe moving event(s) to the Bournemouth weekend and not wanting to go into a discussion about things (You know what) but if some of these events moved to the Bournemouth weekend, would they have the same stipulation of compulsory residency and with that, excluding players who want to play?
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Post by BB Warrior on Sept 22, 2016 15:46:33 GMT
Nice idea Dave about the possibly of maybe moving event(s) to the Bournemouth weekend and not wanting to go into a discussion about things (You know what) but if some of these events moved to the Bournemouth weekend, would they have the same stipulation of compulsory residency and with that, excluding players who want to play? Hello Mark, As always, any changes to the rules would have to be decided at the AGM rather than here on the forum. However, the current rule stipulates that entry to the AEBBA Pairs competition requires residency at the Queens Hotel and no other competitions are mentioned so, since some players have played in England international games there without staying at the hotel, I would suggest that entry to any other events may also be allowed.... but who knows what may be decided at the AGM?  |
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Post by Chris on Sept 22, 2016 19:21:33 GMT
Dear All
Let's just start with storage - we do pay for it - not sure why anyone would say it was free as it was clearly stated on last years accounts. We pay £200.
You could move the tables but - the only person always there to deliver is Dave Alder so let's remember this in looking at the storage for tables, or you could lose your delivery.
We could look at hiring a place from the big yellow storage company or similar in Reading but
a) What is the availability of access?
b) what is the cost?
Personally I cannot enter AEBBA events in the Autumn as I can no longer drive long distances in the dark, due to sight issues . most events finish by 7ish - dark then.
If we could store the tables with a company at a cost, then the Arborfield is a good central venue for many, although not all, I believe there would then be a £50 charge per event, so extra charges would be made to players and would the Arborfield want all those events in the Autumn? Would it then balance re the petrol costs to players?
This is far more reaching than a cold venue, and I agree with Mark the PO Club was often exceptionally cold. Oxford have always travelled and I don't believe it can be compared as a venue, to others, many do not travel and I include myself in this criticism now.
I truly understand the petrol issues but it will always be larger for some than others.
I truly understand the request for a variety of venues but can Dave Alder do that? Given that it may mean a Saturday delivery? In the AEBBA events season he only has to give up one day, ( Sunday ) if away he would have to give up two, not really fair here at all.
I go back to combining some of the events with limited entries.
Just purely my personal opinion and not that of any of the AEBBA Committee
Chris x
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Post by petersoanes on Sept 23, 2016 7:25:52 GMT
Are there to many tournaments ?
Surely the over 50's and 60's are unnecessary maybe the alternative rules there's three for a start
This would make the remaining tournaments more prestigious and more people more determined to play
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2016 10:26:46 GMT
Are there to many tournaments ? Surely the over 50's and 60's are unnecessary maybe the alternative rules there's three for a start This would make the remaining tournaments more prestigious and more people more determined to play At the moment I'd say yes. It had been generally accepted that we'd reached saturation point with the addition of the Off-the-Spot Open, but this year Northants have squeezed 2 new events into the calendar (albeit most welcome, great events) without losing one (tho' Berks was nearly lost). So if two have to go, to maintain the balance, Pete's finger is pointing in the right direction. It is only natural to have a Veteran's event, but why an o'50s AND an o'60s ? When these were inaugurated they probably had a lot more relevance than the Over 50's has now, as in this day and age this must take in the majority of BB players ! Ergo, having an under 30s and an over 50s could be seen as being discriminatory against a minority bracket: persons aged between 30 and 49. Having an 0ver 65s would make far more sense in this day and age so time maybe to have one and discontinue the other two..... The Alternative Rules has had a good run of more than 20 years in its present format, having replaced the Off-the-Spot which we now have back by popular demand. So unless the interest this year matches that of the last two years, the most natural thing in the world would be to recognise the new Northants 4-Pin Open as the true Alternative Rules from henceforth. Thus two events and one weekend less at Didcot. |
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Sept 23, 2016 11:37:19 GMT
Are there to many tournaments ? Surely the over 50's and 60's are unnecessary maybe the alternative rules there's three for a start This would make the remaining tournaments more prestigious and more people more determined to play At the moment I'd say yes. It had been generally accepted that we'd reached saturation point with the addition of the Off-the-Spot Open, but this year Northants have squeezed 2 new events into the calendar (albeit most welcome, great events) without losing one (tho' Berks was nearly lost). So if two have to go, to maintain the balance, Pete's finger is pointing in the right direction. It is only natural to have a Veteran's event, but why an o'50s AND an o'60s ? When these were inaugurated they probably had a lot more relevance than the Over 50's has now, as in this day and age this must take in the majority of BB players ! Ergo, having an under 30s and an over 50s could be seen as being discriminatory against a minority bracket: persons aged between 30 and 49. Having an 0ver 65s would make far more sense in this day and age so time maybe to have one and discontinue the other two..... The Alternative Rules has had a good run of more than 20 years in its present format, having replaced the Off-the-Spot which we now have back by popular demand. So unless the interest this year matches that of the last two years, the most natural thing in the world would be to recognise the new Northants 4-Pin Open as the true Alternative Rules from henceforth. Thus two events and one weekend less at Didcot. Sensible i think |
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Post by BB Warrior on Sept 25, 2016 6:18:19 GMT
Are there to many tournaments ? Surely the over 50's and 60's are unnecessary maybe the alternative rules there's three for a start This would make the remaining tournaments more prestigious and more people more determined to play At the moment I'd say yes. It had been generally accepted that we'd reached saturation point with the addition of the Off-the-Spot Open, but this year Northants have squeezed 2 new events into the calendar (albeit most welcome, great events) without losing one (tho' Berks was nearly lost). So if two have to go, to maintain the balance, Pete's finger is pointing in the right direction. It is only natural to have a Veteran's event, but why an o'50s AND an o'60s ? When these were inaugurated they probably had a lot more relevance than the Over 50's has now, as in this day and age this must take in the majority of BB players ! Ergo, having an under 30s and an over 50s could be seen as being discriminatory against a minority bracket: persons aged between 30 and 49. Having an 0ver 65s would make far more sense in this day and age so time maybe to have one and discontinue the other two..... The Alternative Rules has had a good run of more than 20 years in its present format, having replaced the Off-the-Spot which we now have back by popular demand. So unless the interest this year matches that of the last two years, the most natural thing in the world would be to recognise the new Northants 4-Pin Open as the true Alternative Rules from henceforth. Thus two events and one weekend less at Didcot. Good points made by many people on the thread so far, although I am not sure that there would be enough players that would enter an "Over 65's" competition to justify that replacing the current Over 50's and Over 60's competition. In the last few years, the majority of people that have entered the Over 50's and 60's have actually played in both competitions as that gives them more games and therefore makes the journmey worthwhile. Until a few years ago, the Over 50's/60's competitions were run on the same day as the Mixed Pairs and we always seemed to have a fairly good level of support for those when they were played at Reading, obviously that changed when Surrey started to host the Mixed Pairs and that has proved successful for that competition but the age related competitions have reduced in numbers.  Personally, I think it would be a pity if we lost the Alternative Rules competition as it is nice to have something completely different to play, there is already a 4-pin Open that is run very successfully by Suffolk every year and my understanding was that the Northants version was simply included to give players 2 competitions over the weekend to give them more to play for after a long journey, a great idea but not intended to become a National Ranking Competition. It was very helpful that Didcot offered to store the tables and host the AEBBA Competitions when the Post Office Club closed, however I believe that Ros is correct when she says that was only going to be a "short-term" solution and I do feel that we either need to look for an alternative, more central, venue or consider the option to move the national tournaments around the country with different counties hosting them each year and maybe even running the competitions on the day if Dave Alder was unable to do that. Hopefully the AEBBA Committee and the AGM this year will provide some suggestions on the best way forward to enable us to continue to successfully run these national competitions. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 9:45:05 GMT
Personally, I think it would be a pity if we lost the Alternative Rules competition as it is nice to have something completely different to play, there is already a 4-pin Open that is run very successfully by Suffolk every year and my understanding was that the Northants version was simply included to give players 2 competitions over the weekend to give them more to play for after a long journey, a great idea but not intended to become a National Ranking Competition. I beg to differ on this one. Firstly, the Alt Rules would not have been 'lost' but rather replaced (albeit with a time lapse) by two other competitions - the National Off-the-Spot which it started out as anyway, and what many now view as a better definition of the Alternative Rules of our game, viz "Four-Pin" which whether you like it or not is catching on. Having played in the 1st Northants 4-Pin, it seemed like I was taking part in a 'proper' Open as it was organised as such and had exactly that atmosphere - rather than you suggest a mere casual inclusion for the weekend. The lineup was 34 players who paid an entry fee, and they were spread around 4 counties. Why should this be destined never to have National status ? Why should there be only one National 4-Pin ? The Suffolk players took part willingly and didn't see it as an encroachment. I think it is a natural progression that in years to come the East Anglian will become the British 4-Pin Championships, spread over a weekend similar to Jersey, with an Open Pairs maybe on the Saturday. And then to mirror the National Off-the-Spot, to have the National 4-Pin Open doing the rounds, with Northants hosting for the first few years. Why not ? |
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Post by Coleman Jnr on Sept 25, 2016 19:18:07 GMT
I can probably comment on behalf of the small number of Northants players, who attend every open we can regardless of distance and cost, (and I feel like this has to be put in every post nowadays as to not offend people) this is not aimed at anyone just an opinion of ours. We travel to all opens and especially any in and around the M25 area we get back at silly o clock every time (mostly down to Damo being in the plate!), and before now we never had a home tournament (and after such a long weekend I can understand why) and yet we still do because we try to support all the hard work that goes into organising these events. unless we find a venue and someone willing to do this all, this will never happen, and with the AGM coming up so soon someone will need to step up quick.
As for the Northants 4 pin open, this was an event we held only to make a spectacle of the weekend, as we do understand it was a long journey and we really did appreciate everyone traveling up. That in mind I personally think that a venue will not be found so maybe the only option is to try and have more tournaments running along side each other over a weekend to a) lower the number of weekends and b) make them more worth while attending!
This would also help out the problem with the Bucks/Northants/Berks open congestion. I know we are mostly to blame for that but there is genuinely no other weekend we could find so by running more competitions in less weekends this would bring down the cost of traveling. Unfortunately this will then mean competitions will start earlier and finish later which also won't please people!
Unfortunately probably won't ever win!!
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Post by BB Warrior on Sept 25, 2016 20:14:52 GMT
Tommo, I know that you are a huge supporter of the 4-pin version of the game but I would refer you to the words of one of the organisers of the Northants Open & 4-pin Competitions.... As for the Northants 4 pin open, this was an event we held only to make a spectacle of the weekend, as we do understand it was a long journey and we really did appreciate everyone traveling up. I agree that it was not a "casual inclusion" (it was actually a VERY GOOD IDEA by Northants as it got some EXTRA PLAYERS to attend their Open weekend that would probably not have otherwise attended! ) but I do feel that my comment "simply included to give players 2 competitions over the weekend to give them more to play for after a long journey" was EXACTLY what the organisers intended it to be!!  With regards to some of the other points that you have made.... many now view as a better definition of the Alternative Rules of our game, viz "Four-Pin" which whether you like it or not is catching on. Firstly, please let me make this very clear.... I have NOTHING AGAINST 4-pin, it is simply a version of the game that I personally choose not to play. As I have said (many times) in the past, anything that gets people playing Bar Billiards is a GOOD THING and I honestly hope that 4-pin continues to thrive and grow in the future. Why should this be destined never to have National status ? Why should there be only one National 4-Pin ? The Suffolk players took part willingly and didn't see it as an encroachment. Who said it could not become a National Competition in the future? All I said was that I did not want to see this replace the existing Alternative Rules competition. Obviously, if the Northants 4-pin becomes a regular fixture in the diary every season then I am sure that giving it the same status as a "minor open" with ranking points will be discussed. But as far as making it the new "Alternative Rules" competition the whole point of Alternative Rules is that NO OTHER COMPETITION is played under those rules.... so if East Anglia continues to be as successful as it has been and grows as much as you believe it will in the future, then clearly the Northants 4-pin will not be "Alternative".  I think it is a natural progression that in years to come the East Anglian will become the British 4-Pin Championships, spread over a weekend similar to Jersey, with an Open Pairs maybe on the Saturday. And then to mirror the National Off-the-Spot, to have the National 4-Pin Open doing the rounds, with Northants hosting for the first few years. Why not ? Wow! I wonder if East Anglia knows that you expect world domination within our sport from them in the next gew years.... well, I guess they will know now!  Maybe though I should remind you that the reason we have started this thread is to discuss the lack of players for the current 3-pin competitions this year so personally I would rather be reading enthusiastic suggestions for ways to improve those.... |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2016 21:33:47 GMT
Dave I have not claimed that the Northants 4-Pin that was run this year had official national status (i.e. in respect of being ratified by the AEBBA), but we all have to start somewhere and I hold that the first year was a major success, enjoyed by all 34 who took part.
I do hope that this is indeed just the start and that Northants are inclined to run it again next year, when I reckon that if anything they'd get an increased entry. The group stages followed the same format of the Opens held in Sudbury and worked very well. I managed to play 9 frames in the course of the day which is why I said it 'felt like' an Open.
In other threads we have discussed what possible measures could be considered that might save the game. In this respect I believe that we have to move with the times and encourage the continuation of things that work well, even if this means that ones that are ailing may have to fall to the wayside.
In view of this I have awarded a 'like' to Pete Soanes's post.
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Post by milhouse on Sept 26, 2016 9:24:28 GMT
Some of the early posts have mentioned that a reason for not playing the comps at Didcot is to do with cost? So, now people are on about playing 2 comps on the same weekend, how is this going to save people money? Either you travel to the venue twice or you have to stay in a hotel overnight?
Is it just me, or does this not make sense?
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Sept 26, 2016 9:30:32 GMT
Some of the early posts have mentioned that a reason for not playing the comps at Didcot is to do with cost? So, now people are on about playing 2 comps on the same weekend, how is this going to save people money? Either you travel to the venue twice or you have to stay in a hotel overnight? Is it just me, or does this not make sense? I would like to say thanks to didcot for looking after tables, unless there is an alternate plan to store tables elsewhere FOC and run most of the comps i think all these rumblings are somewhat academic  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2016 10:21:23 GMT
Some of the early posts have mentioned that a reason for not playing the comps at Didcot is to do with cost? So, now people are on about playing 2 comps on the same weekend, how is this going to save people money? Either you travel to the venue twice or you have to stay in a hotel overnight? Is it just me, or does this not make sense? Not really !  Economics is a matter for the individual, what makes sound sense for one person may not be the case for someone else. It's generally accepted that you take residence at an event such as Jersey, Guernsey and Bournemouth as you are making a weekend of it. When I took part at Norwich, 150 miles away, we put up at a holiday village in Great Yarmouth to allow some exploration on the Sunday. For Sudbury, many finding it a long run choose to stay somewhere overnight, but at about 100 miles it's just about borderline for me to make it there and back in the same day, the journey not being too stressful. For Northampton, I wanted to play in both events, but at 120 miles away it tipped the balance in favour of an overnight stay. My car only does 20 miles to the gallon, so I had to judge petrol expenses for a double journey (and the stress factor) against the cost of a B & B. The B & B won, and it's a decision that I don't regret and am looking to repeat next year. What's good for me may not necessarily work for someone else (even in the same county, as I live in the north, handy for the M25). As the discussion focusses mainly on Didcot, what would I do if there was an attractive weekend of BB's in Oxfordshire ? Well at 100 miles or more exactly the same considerations as above would apply. Depends how attractive the event is made to tempt entry......basically "horses for courses". |
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Post by Coleman Jnr on Sept 26, 2016 11:40:56 GMT
Dave I have not claimed that the Northants 4-Pin that was run this year had official national status (i.e. in respect of being ratified by the AEBBA), but we all have to start somewhere and I hold that the first year was a major success, enjoyed by all 34 who took part. I do hope that this is indeed just the start and that Northants are inclined to run it again next year, when I reckon that if anything they'd get an increased entry. The group stages followed the same format of the Opens held in Sudbury and worked very well. I managed to play 9 frames in the course of the day which is why I said it 'felt like' an Open. In other threads we have discussed what possible measures could be considered that might save the game. In this respect I believe that we have to move with the times and encourage the continuation of things that work well, even if this means that ones that are ailing may have to fall to the wayside. In view of this I have awarded a 'like' to Pete Soanes's post. Don't worry Tommo as things stand we are looking to do the same format. Just hoping the committee can come up with a solution to solve the congestion from the Bucks open to Christmas. I think Mark had the right idea with swapping some of the AEBBA comps to earlier in the year so it doesn't feel like your in Didcot every weekend! This will obviously depend on each county being able to change their date! |
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Post by BB Warrior on Sept 26, 2016 15:37:45 GMT
I would like to say thanks to didcot for looking after tables, unless there is an alternate plan to store tables elsewhere FOC and run most of the comps i think all these rumblings are somewhat academic Just to clarify something, Didcot do charge AEBBA for storage of the tables. Clearly, if we found another (suitable) venue that would store the tables FOC then that would be an attractive proposition. We all know that there are other venues out there, some of them even host our competitions already, but as far as I know nobody has spoken to them about storing the tables or hosting the AEBBA events.... who knows, we may find an alternative among one of those, or somewhere else. I think that we have a choice here.... we can either look at alternatives as far as both the venue and the type of competitions that we hold in the future.... or we can stick our heads in the sand and hope the problem resolves itself, I suppose the latter option would make these rumblings very academic.  |
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Post by Martin Pellett on Oct 15, 2016 0:03:35 GMT
I don't know what the answer is but speaking as the Chairman of the Redhill leagues we have 120 players playing in two leagues, of those there are probably only 10 to 15 players both men and women who actually want to play in AEBBA comps, most people who play in our league play for fun and a good night out on a Tuesday, they also play in our fun comps but we also struggle to get them to participate in the more serious comps.
As stated in other posts it does not help that all the AEBBA comps are held over a very short space of time and involve a lot a traveling for us and it is the same people attending which can cause some problem with cost etc.
It also does not help with the negative comments that have appeared on some of the other threads on this board, blaming different counties is not going to help the situation.
We are lucky to have 2 leagues of 8 teams still, at our height we had 3 leagues of 15 teams but times change and our main concern is keeping what we have got and looking after our own league, I know this sounds selfish but that is the way it must be.
Perhaps like us the AEBBA should be looking to reduce the number of competitions they run, as like us the number of comps has seemed to increase over they years when the number of players have decreased.
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Post by bigtj on Oct 15, 2016 7:09:08 GMT
There is a demise in the number of teams in many leagues and as Martin says a great number of players paly just locally for fun, the opens do not see a lot of new blood or different people entering, some do have local players enter their own open to boost the numbers.
I personally enter most of the Opens knowing I am only making the numbers up, but enjoy the day and meeting up with friends and seeing the best play the game.
Local leagues I think struggle to get the numbers of entries in their own competitions and there is a lot of hard work done by certain people to try and boost the numbers and make local competitions viable. There is also a general apathy locally and at county level with most AGMs poorly attended and it being left to a select few to run the leagues and counties.
When we have discussions on here it is usually a few of the same people that take part.
I do feel that having the competitions all in one block at the end of the season is a factor, what with travelling, costs and other commitments. I am lucky that for the Opens I have people travel with me, which makes the journey better having some company and sharing the costs. I tend to agree could we not spread these competitions over the year and maybe rearrange the opens around them.
Slating certain people and counties is not going to help, and I have stayed out of this mainly because my comment about the Sussex inter-league clashing seems to have opened up a can of worms, whilst I was only pointing out a factor, and people still have their own choice to attend the national competitions and still make their way back to their inter-league matches.
Having the Northants open back this year I think is positive an I for one enjoyed being able to make a weekend of it and what a great weekend it was. My feelings go out to those who put all the effort in organising and running our leagues, counties and national events as it is a thankless task undertaken only for their love of the game, a small amount do so much to ensure these all survive.
I have only missed Guernsey in the last year so have supported. A number of the National ones at the end of the season I and others would not be eligible to enter but have in the past supported those I am eligible for. This year from a personal view I would be travelling on my own to the Over 50s and 60s and feel wanting to support my own inter-league team is important and that it maybe too much for me to attend the over 50s/60s and then travel back for a game in the evening. I am still considering doing both but am leaving that decision as late as possible.
There are some very good ideas on here and I am not sure what the solution is, but maybe it needs a think tank to actually get together face to face and try and work out what is best, face to face always seems best to me, unfortunately I will not be able to attend the AEBBA AGM as it clashes with a long standing prior arrangement, but would be willing to be part of a national face to face think tank.
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Oct 15, 2016 7:44:59 GMT
There is a demise in the number of teams in many leagues and as Martin says a great number of players paly just locally for fun, the opens do not see a lot of new blood or different people entering, some do have local players enter their own open to boost the numbers. I personally enter most of the Opens knowing I am only making the numbers up, but enjoy the day and meeting up with friends and seeing the best play the game. Local leagues I think struggle to get the numbers of entries in their own competitions and there is a lot of hard work done by certain people to try and boost the numbers and make local competitions viable. There is also a general apathy locally and at county level with most AGMs poorly attended and it being left to a select few to run the leagues and counties. When we have discussions on here it is usually a few of the same people that take part. I do feel that having the competitions all in one block at the end of the season is a factor, what with travelling, costs and other commitments. I am lucky that for the Opens I have people travel with me, which makes the journey better having some company and sharing the costs. I tend to agree could we not spread these competitions over the year and maybe rearrange the opens around them. Slating certain people and counties is not going to help, and I have stayed out of this mainly because my comment about the Sussex inter-league clashing seems to have opened up a can of worms, whilst I was only pointing out a factor, and people still have their own choice to attend the national competitions and still make their way back to their inter-league matches. Having the Northants open back this year I think is positive an I for one enjoyed being able to make a weekend of it and what a great weekend it was. My feelings go out to those who put all the effort in organising and running our leagues, counties and national events as it is a thankless task undertaken only for their love of the game, a small amount do so much to ensure these all survive. I have only missed Guernsey in the last year so have supported. A number of the National ones at the end of the season I and others would not be eligible to enter but have in the past supported those I am eligible for. This year from a personal view I would be travelling on my own to the Over 50s and 60s and feel wanting to support my own inter-league team is important and that it maybe too much for me to attend the over 50s/60s and then travel back for a game in the evening. I am still considering doing both but am leaving that decision as late as possible. There are some very good ideas on here and I am not sure what the solution is, but maybe it needs a think tank to actually get together face to face and try and work out what is best, face to face always seems best to me, unfortunately I will not be able to attend the AEBBA AGM as it clashes with a long standing prior arrangement, but would be willing to be part of a national face to face think tank. agree TJ presume the AEBBA committee will be considering all the above in due coorse |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 9:30:33 GMT
maybe it needs a think tank to actually get together face to face and try and work out what is best, face to face always seems best to me .......... but would be willing to be part of a national face to face think tank. A think tank on how to prevent the game at the national level slipping into further decline seems a logical step to me. We all seem to acknowledge what the problems are, but trying to offer solutions on this Forum is often frustrating and sometimes even counter-productive, as ideas offered in good heart can be dismissed out of hand, ignored or simply overlooked. |
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Post by JB on Oct 15, 2016 11:02:30 GMT
Trying to think of alternatives to try and keep these competitions going
Personally I think alternating the events or somehow playing a north south divide wouldn't work. Looking at the entries even the comps played in the south are not supported by the north and vice versa.
One example was BIOC Ladies which had 23 entries but only 3 from outside Sussex and Surrey.
Some thoughts I had are (don't know if they would work would need Nigel's thoughts on formats etc)
County Champs div 1 and 2 & ladies. Probably a bit radical but I think that only one team from each County should be allowed to enter. Both div 1 and div 2 could be played on the same day. If feasible the ladies could also be played on this day. I would suggest this played at Didcot
Team Champs and special ladies - could this be held in Bucks @ Cressex?
BIOC Ladies could this be run alongside U25's in Sussex
Alternate Rules - played @ Didcot
Individual Men's & Ladies plus over 50's 60's @ Didcot
Off The Spot -Surrey
Mixed Pairs - Surrey
Grand Prix -Didcot
At the moment there are 7 trips to Didcot 1 to Sussex and 2 to Surrey
The above would be 4 to Didcot 1 to Sussex 1 to Bucks and 2 to Surrey
Sorry if I forgot any comps and as I said these are just ideas to try and help keep the competitions going.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 11:40:31 GMT
I agree with 90% of Jean's suggestions, with a couple of amendments:
replace with a BIOC Ladies Pairs (there used to be one) and hold in Surrey
give to Northants (day before the Open) and make it 4-Pin
this is supposed to be 'touring the counties' so could be passed to a different one next year.
At some stage any popular suggestions (ie those with a seconder) need to go onto the AGM 2016 thread.
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Post by JB on Oct 15, 2016 14:26:03 GMT
Replace special ladies with a pairs competition. There's only 8 in special ladies so do you think you could suddenly get loads of ladies to suddenly enter?
The reason I said Didcot for this was the BIOC is already held in the South. I thought it only fair that one was in the north and one in the south.
Yes you could possibly play it in Surrey but I feel it would make it a Surrey v Sussex comp plus 3-4 others
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Post by BigPhilMac on Oct 15, 2016 15:37:15 GMT
With regards to the under 25s, would upping the age be an option? I personally would of wanted to defend the title this year but unfortunately will be too old.
I think we are getting to a stage where we will need to accept the inevitable because we are haemorrhaging numbers of players on a local level, let alone at a national level. If I received a penny for however many times I've heard the old guard saying "I've had enough, this is my last season" I'd be minted.
I don't think moving the competitions would make much a difference because we will still have players not willing to travel, except this time it would be from a different part of the country.
As much as it pains me to say it, it's a dying game.
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