preparing A.N. Other table

[taffy]

I have taken the plunge and bought a used table. it looks like a plain - so late one. it is nearly 37" wide and the 200 shot is well inside the corner when it used to be on the corner back in the day when the Tharp Arms had two of it's three Alfred Sams tables. it has coat hangers on the right hand side for the Ques to sit in.

Now I have a hundred things wrong with it and two hundred things to do to it if it is to be any good.

what is it?
square legs with a chamfer down each leg each corner tapering out near to the top and bottom but unlike a Sams, it doesn't have that bulbous bit at the bottom. it has little info with it, just made in Mahogany and has a Sams (patent paid) money box. it has stickers on it for the 4-pin game.

first thing I noticed when setting up was that all the balls stopped on the edge of the pockets but after a day of use in a warm room and lots of brushing and hoovering it is a lot better.

it has a composite top - not a slate which appears to be true and straight. when checked from underneath. initially, the balls rolled terribly in towards the centre when running down the 'wings' outside the 50s, but again, it seems to have settled with a little adjustment to the legs.

Q1. the longest I can make a game is 9m 45s and the gate goes about 10 seconds before the times stops. the only way I could extend the game I THINK, is to slow the 'quiver' down with more weight to create more inertia. so how long should a game be and how CAN I make the game longer?

the front three holes have scarlet red rings that have a 2mm flat on the top which initially gives the impression that the ball is in but all it does is roll paste the corner. very disconcerting!

the back 6 rings are in a dark brown. all the hole sizes are the same.

the rubbers are old and dead which I LIKE along the top but dislike along the sides, the ball comes back at a rapid rate!
Q3. should the table always be flat/horizontal?

Q4. does the table roll in because the cloth has a nap on the outside but is shall we say, 'balding' slightly infield or is the problem more serious?

there was a massive cracking noise as each ball came back, this was found to be the balls flying down to the stop board before dropping into their final resting spot. I knew what I wanted to use straight away and it works a treat and that is condensed seat foam that Motorcycle Roadracers use. now there is no noise and it will be very hard wearing.

I also made a secure 'H' frame for safe work under the table top rather than two wobbly legs.

I played my usual 4-pin with 3 pins which I enjoy anyway (no pin infront of the 100) and it is coming.

I need to order: Skittles, Baize, rubber side boarders, a 'D', some score numbers preferably in white as the gold is chipped and faded. I also need a red if anyone has one spare I can buy? a red please! I have no head board for the scores but there are the two holes where it once stood.


regards

Taffy

Hi Taffy,

Pleased to hear of your purchase, which no doubt will cement your interest in the game for the foreseeable future !
It does rather sound as if you have landed yourself with quite a challenge to bring it up to scratch......

You say no bowl adjusters as with a normal SAMS - sometimes you get a flat metal adjuster: is there any sort of adjuster, or are they missing ?
Once you have overcome the problem of how to raise or lower the legs, you should be able to get it flat with the help of a spirit level.

Slate is always preferable to MDF but so long as you can roll a ball straight into the 50s, 30s and 20s then that should be good enough.

The clock sounds like a standard SV Brevete, there should be a circular threaded bush on the end which by winding towards the end of the waggly bit lengthens the clock time. About 17 mins is standard.

Hardened rubbers are a typical problem, but probably one you can live with. The annoying crack which echoes round the house when the balls hit the back of the ball tray is one I'm familiar with: eventually overcome by a visit to the local Pound Shop for a packet of Felt Pads of assorted sizes.

There are internet sites where you can order bar billiards accessories like sets of numbers, scoreboards, ball sets, pegs and mushrooms etc: a popular one is Mercury Leisure who are based in S.Wales.

My answers are always given in laymans terms, if you want advice from a real expert, Sav's your man !

How about a picture of your new acquisition ?

Regards,
tommo

[taffy]

Thanks Tommo, yes a photo is due I feel. There is a 2-3mm drop from the Leather onto the felt which I take to be the difference between the Slate and the MDF. it really is fine except outside the 50s and that could be what? I'm guessing and hoping it is the baize and its wear/threadbareness in the middle. the 4 legs all have steel plates underneath to adjust - which is good. I can see 8 domed coach bolt heads - 2 to a leg - on each orner that clamp it all together.

I don't have anything fitted on the quivering bit, certainly no bush. I can do this by using a model car axle clamp. we use them on Carbs. how big or how heavy is this threaded bush? (link please?) the way this lengthens a game is an adjustable nose that marchs forwards eventually kicking the gate down. the clock fairly buzzes away and I 'feel' that it is the sheer speed of the clock that makes it wind down so quickly. I can soften the spring a little as my next test?

I have looked all over this section of the site and not found anything on recovering with new baize. My attitude tommo is that a table that needs re-covering and new bits and bobs goes from the least desirable to the most desirable of its type so i'm not crying at all.

I would like the easydrop pocket rings but I believe that they are no longer available right?

lots of questions....sorry!

Taffy

Regarding your query on adjusting the length of the timer, this early post from Sav gives the definitive answer:

Apr 21, 2009 7:12:40 GMT Chris_Sav said:

There are three methods of altering the time the bar takes to drop. If the clock is running to completion there is unlikely to be a major problem. Always lubricate the wheel spindles as your clock will be useless if the clock wheels enlarge the spindle holes. These clocks always run slower as the time runs out.

Re the clock in question a picture would help to judge the ticker arm balance.

Adjustments;

1) The thrust bolt on the middle of the bar end of the clock that trips the bar lever.
2) Adjusting the position of the weight on the ticker arm of the clock, further out runs longer.
3) Increasing / decreasing the weight on the ticker arm (small washers etc), heavier weight runs longer

The vital part is to do the preliminary adjustment on the ticker arm if you are trying to make the clock run longer. You cannot make the clock run longer than the ticker will run for. If you adjust the thrust bolt for more time you may run out of clock!

Sav

[taffy]

cheers Tommo

I have it now. I fitted a block connector lunchtime and the next P*K*N game took 23.50 before thew gate dropped, I was on my knees! help!

with a little adjustment we have been down to 19M and now 17M 15s.

is this to international standard Sir!

Taffy

Well done on resolving the clock problem. Yes, 17 minutes or thereabouts falls right in the middle of what is legal !
You mentioned earlier that you need a D - you can make these quite easily and cheaply from duck tape using a compass cutter. Eventually they start to curl up at the edges, but they're good enough for home as once you've done one successfully it only takes a couple of minutes to make another.

[taffy]

next question:
how far ahead of the holes is the pin centre point Tommo?

can you tell me if Sav or anyone here has ever done a thread on recovering a table? I can't see one? I must say 17-minutes tonight after all those 10 minute games was killing me. I need to give it a rest, it's a bit like a boy's favourite hobby, I'm gonna go blind if I carry on!

I need to re-leather the near end so I will see if I don't have a patch left or as you say - have a go with the duct tape.

regards

Taffy

[Chris_Sav]

barbilliards.proboards.com/thread/2136/rules-game-aebba?page=2

Rules have dimensions in them.

If you'd try looking at the next thread to yours, aptly name Table maintenance!

barbilliards.proboards.com/thread/7297/table-maintenance-transport

contains much on recovering.

Much of what you seek is on the forum

This thread recommends the type of leatherette needed for the front of the table:
barbilliards.proboards.com/thread/11923/leatherette

[taffy]

this is a photo of the table in the 'east wing' LOL!!!!

here is a photo of the table. would love a red ball ANYBODY! there's a table on Ebay right now looks similar (£599 start price) but this is a later and 'cheaper' table I feel.

I just love the Mushrooms with the wasted stems. I can get inside any ball for a 'cue ball in the 100'. amazing! a skittle falls over just because i was THINKING of taking the shot!

Sorry Sav but I started reading that thread and didn't realise it would go on to re-cover the table. as a mechanic, to me, maintenance is checking the oil so I didn't twig the current of the thread.

Taffy

[barbelman]

Dec 7, 2016 10:14:45 GMT taffy said:

this is a photo of the table in the 'east wing' LOL!!!!

here is a photo of the table. would love a red ball ANYBODY! 

Taffy

PM me your address Taffy and I'll send you one if I can find them.....

Tony

[taffy]

well, I found out that the skittle should be 6mm from the edge of the hole. can anyone define for me what the 'edge of the hole' is because the OD of the hole and where the edge of the ring is are variant upon the manufacturer?

also, and I may have missed it (scared to ask now! LOL!!!) how do you (like to) brush the nap of the table?

how do you define an old cloth or any of the grades of wear? (new, excellent, OK, still passable....)

the balls often stop right at the edge of the hole, is this because the cloth wasn't drawn down the hole when the table was clothed?
and is there anything to be done?

does baize have an automated dog hair from the air catchability capability??????????

regards

Taffy

[taffy]

I have a lot of stuff made for my business that's CNC alloy. I reckon on making some easy drop pockets with varying lip angles to try them out in the top 5 pockets.

do people like a ball to disappear when it catches a pocket or is it OK that it rolls the edge and has a skittle over? how do people feel about that?

any views on the lip angle especially Sav?

regards

Taffy

[barbelman]

Dec 14, 2016 14:30:44 GMT taffy said:

well, I found out that the skittle should be 6mm from the edge of the hole. can anyone define for me what the 'edge of the hole' is because the OD of the hole and where the edge of the ring is are variant upon the manufacturer?

also, and I may have missed it (scared to ask now! LOL!!!) how do you (like to) brush the nap of the table?

how do you define an old cloth or any of the grades of wear? (new, excellent, OK, still passable....)

the balls often stop right at the edge of the hole, is this because the cloth wasn't drawn down the hole when the table was clothed?
and is there anything to be done?

does baize have an automated dog hair from the air catchability capability??????????

regards

Taffy

I always measure from the interface between cloth and pocket Taff i.e. where the green bit starts!

Brush ALWAYS with the nap which should be pointing towards the far end of the table!

If a ball stops on the edge of the pocket because of a raised pocket, you can usually see it "bounce".  It's only a miniscule movement but very visible.  Sometimes the ball just stops very close to the hole and it's often a sign that the pockets are correctly set.

Tony

[barbelman]

Dec 14, 2016 14:32:25 GMT taffy said:

I have a lot of stuff made for my business that's CNC alloy. I reckon on making some easy drop pockets with varying lip angles to try them out in the top 5 pockets.

do people like a ball to disappear when it catches a pocket or is it OK that it rolls the edge and has a skittle over? how do people feel about that?

I like the extra jeopardy of the balls whipping if not quite accurate enough.  Fast drop pockets are too forgiving and hide a multitude of sins.... 

Tony

I haven't forgotten your ball.  Been a bit poorly recently so unable to get to Post Office with tiny parcel..... It won't fit in the letter box down the road!

[taffy]

I like the idea of being as equally gentle to get the ball down as not catch a skittle that falls easily Tony.

so I'd hate to have easydrop pockets and delicate skittles or difficult pockets where the balls roll around for ever but mushrooms like mine with a 21.5mm base and 3" off the deck that a hammer didn't move.

if they are equal and that adds to the nice rythem of the game then that will do! understand about the reds-cheers!

Taffy

[taffy]

Hello

things going on with Mr Other's table are:

we start with a question:
1) has anyone ever cut up or drilled slate? i say drilled but that is probably the wrong term? it is just that there are old snooker table slates for sale really cheap and I wondered if they can be cut to shape and then the holes put in?

comments on slate would be appreciated!

2) recently I have had the table tilted towards the player in order to give the ball a good roll off the top cushion. this works nicely and the player can play a softer shot for what they want. a re-cloth would be better but we await this?

3) I purchased a set of Snooker balls this weew. I have played for the first 5 weeks with 7 whites of which one had polca dots marked on it with felt tip. now I have two proper reds and was able place the two whites in a box and replace them. the weight of all the balls is - luckily 90-95 grammes so happy days!

4) Alan Turner made me a beautiful set of skittles and then I read of the Sudbury leagues rules and noted the base of the skittles could be 18mm not 16.5mm as they came. so Alan made me a second set and they are 10mm shorter and 18mm across the base. You can hit them a little harder and the whole skittle moves rather than falls. as i'm within the rules I feel that this is a good move.

5) the breal shot is nearly impossible, either one stays up and down or either or both, all on a 'hair's breadth' of change. the table is on the maximum playing length of 143cm so maybe this has something to do with it?

6) after several weeks of use and 30 games per week, yes 30, the clock mechanism is better than ever with the oiling it got. so sometimes you have to wait!

7) the 'quill' was going ten to the dozen and the longest a game was lasting at full stretch was 8.30. after a word from tommo, it transpired that the quill should have a weight on it and this slows the speed down of the quill. so i fitted a block connector that are used in auto electrics and placed it the correct distance. the game now lasts just under 18 minutes which is deemed the right time by 3-pin tommo.

8) the balls were BANGING into the drop board so i changed the hardened congealed rubber mess for CONDENSED FOAM RUBBER 10mm thick and it's brilliant! no noise and no mess, far better than felt.

9) the trough had sponges in each bay but after years of lack of use the sponge was being smashed and then the balls hit the board here as well. more CONDENSED FOAM RUBBER and i can hear a pin drop while the balls are coming back.

10) next problem, even when made, i think this had 4mm ply and the balls dropping in the 100 and 200 really 'bangs' so much so the gate goes a few seconds early when the ball goes down the 100. I need to either put thicker cloth on the runs or as i suspect use screws instead of nails to hold the ball guides/runners - its these that rattle!

that is all!!!!

regards
Taffy

Hi Taffy,
Can answer a few of your (easier) questions.
1) Yes, Bar Billiards (Kent) when a hire operator used to cut Jelkes slates which ran the full length of the table so that they matched those on SAMS tables so that they became interchangeable. I would imagine that normal tile cutting considerations would apply.

2) Yes I like tables to be set ever-so-slightly "uphill" so that you get a good bounce off the back cushion for that "up-and-back" 100 shot.

5) Break shot mastery is a good part of the game, especially in 4-Pin where there is little margin for error: the idea is to play a measured shot so that the balls arrive at the holes and drop simultaneously !

8) and 10) this tip is from the table maintenance thread:

Mar 23, 2012 7:23:08 GMT barbelman said:

The ancient Jelkes BB table I bought recently had some moth in the baize so I thought I would strip the baize out of the ball channels too.
After spraying with insecticide (ugh) I relined the runners with this stuff. It looks very good, easy to use but only time will tell if it is hard wearing enough.
It was called Sticky Backed Green Baize Velour Fablon (very Blue Peter ;D) and is item 190645593527 on Ebay.
Tony

Apr 2, 2012 14:00:28 GMT tommo III said:

The vinyl sheet arrived prompty, and today I got round to relining the runners - ably assisted by my granddaughter Jessica (who is on half term and was looking to earn some pin money).

I recall that this came in a square sheet: I did the measuring and cutting (some channels are wider than others) and Jessica did the peel off the backing part and the fitting. About 30 minutes work in all and a professional looking finish !

[Chris_Sav]

Jan 10, 2017 11:57:12 GMT tommo III said:

Hi Taffy,
Can answer a few of your (easier) questions.
1) Yes, Bar Billiards (Kent) when a hire operator used to cut Jelkes slates which ran the full length of the table so that they matched those on SAMS tables so that they became interchangeable. I would imagine that normal tile cutting considerations would apply.

Close but not correct old friend. The slates were always three quarters, BBK used to cut the under-frame make two sections.

I've drilled pockets in slate it's surprisingly soft, quite easy - nice and slowly with a hole cutter, a jig to hold the drill vertical and lots of water.

Jan 10, 2017 18:45:30 GMT Chris_Sav said:

The slates were always three quarters, BBK used to cut the under-frame make two sections.

Well you've lost me completely now ! If I can get something like that so wrong I think I'll have to draw my neck in from now on.....
Sorry Taffy !

[taffy]

Sav

could you give me an idea on what I'm looking for in a slate THICKNESS wise? I'd imagine that finding an old pre-used pool or snooker slate is quite a good idea right? I can't see this being a problem. Thing is, i might find one of these big and heavy items near to home and that to me is worth a bit too.....

Tommo
I have yet to see 4-pin played by the experts and I see from last years scores that one or two players acheived superb scores at the EA open. if the break off shot was in the 50s then these men are heros! in my day, the break shot was red (cue ball don't forget) in the 50 and white (object ball) in the 10. so you got 110 with every shot. if these boys are getting 150 then they are something else!

no worries on the slate! you answer many, many questions and no doubt with a high repeatability level = yawn! takes dedication to keep offering this service.

regards

Taffy

[Chris_Sav]

Thanks for the comments Taffy, it just happened that when it became obvious to me that Bar Billiards Ltd were going to collapse and the then AEBBA management would take not pro-active stance, I got the former owner of Bar Billiards Kent to show me the ropes and I put together my own set of competition tables. After the BB Ltd collapse there was a conflict of interest as keeping my tables would detract from the efforts to save a national set so mine were sold. Unfortunately the AEBBA tables were let deteriorate to a dreadful state so I was the one to refurbish the lot (at cost price I might add). Like anything new I learned as I went along and improved on the latter ones!


Thickness of your slate is not critical unless your donor slate is thicker than the current slate plus wooden support. If it is you'll have to lower the support rails on the frame and might encounter clearance problems. The main problem is weight as snooker slates are double the weight, it would be a right sod to get that weight into the frame, apart from move the table after.  

Hi Taffy,
Re: 4-Pin, yes indeed the 150 shot has been employed to good effect in Opens so far, particularly by the guys from Eastbourne. One guy from Suffolk, Chris Day, also was doing two down one way and then same shot the other way round - but he's only entered one Open so far.

Nigel's massive 14,500 last year will probably be an all-time record for years to come - that guy can drop every shot on a sixpence.

Having said that, a score of 2000 will win you most games.

I like the Newmarket and BSE version of red and white reversed for the break shot - 110 a time instead of going up in 70s sounds good to me !

For the 2017 East Anglian, beware the Richard Hammond lookalike, and also Sav when he puts the baseball cap on (= he means business !)

Rgds
tommo

[taffy]

so the thickness of slate being what in snooker and usually what on a BB table Sav? If i can get away with 'thin' then thin is what? 6mm?

yes Tommo, red in the 50 and white in the 10 for 110. and the sudbury way would be 60 not 70. so it is 110 v 150 v 60. it means the risk of the object ball taking a 50 skittle out is less.

nobody went for the 150 in our league because the angle from the object ball was too acute to the skittle, virtually nothing of the hole being visible. when you have 110 to gain everytime you don't take the 150 risk.

firstly, the cue ball is travelling far slower than the object ball and also if the object ball always heads to the same place but can vary a little then the cue ball is far more consistant. the cue ball is a metronome.

the ball you get wrong is the object ball in the 10 because you are aiming nearly 'blind', and the pace and angle have to be perfect everytime. but if it goes wrong every third shot then who is crying anyway!

I can see how getting only 60 (sorry Dave!) off the break shot would make you cry!

we got something right? and if you think about it - skittles stop the break shot dead.

skittles are cheaper than tables Dave (hint! hint!)

regards

Taffy

[Chris_Sav]

Bar billiards slate is 12mm thick, quite honestly barely thick enough! and three quarter length slate tables have a known propensity for cracked slates under the front middle where the support is poorest (I add angle iron).

You are governed by the thickness of whatever is in the table now for ease of installation. Any thinner and you would need a support frame under the slate (as normal) to bring it up to the correct thickness. Any thicker and you will need to drop the support rails to get the top of the slate snug under the cushions. 

Jan 11, 2017 13:14:49 GMT taffy said:

so
I can see how getting only 60 (sorry Dave!) off the break shot would make you cry!

Think you'll find it's 70 a time (white in 50, plus red in 10 scoring 20) - makes it just about worth going for (for me, anyway).

Re mushrooms v skittles, I prefer mushrooms (nice in a curry too !)

Sudbury rules allow a ball to move one and for it to remain in the new place until the break ends. A couple of the 150-break players were actually deliberately nudging the mushroom across with the first couple of shots to make a wider angle. You wouldn't be able to do that with a skittle.

[daveuk1]

Jan 11, 2017 11:29:15 GMT tommo III said:

Hi Taffy,
Re: 4-Pin, yes indeed the 150 shot has been employed to good effect in Opens so far, particularly by the guys from Eastbourne. One guy from Suffolk, Chris Day, also was doing two down one way and then same shot the other way round - but he's only entered one Open so far.


Rgds
tommo

Tommo you are right, Chris Day was a great player, he played for the bay horse B team, he gave up bar billiards ages ago though to concentrate on pool, which he now plays at national level.

I remember watch one one league game between Chris and Luke Cole-Watts, Chris started of with an amazing break, cant remember the figure but think it was around the 5k mark, his break was mainly made break shots, red down one 50 and the white down the other 50 hole and then after 3 Times reversing the break shot. Luke came to the table thousands behind and replied with an even bigger break.
As you may remember the preferred break shot on a narrow table is the red up into the corner and back into one 50 while the cue ball goes off the side cushion into the oppisite 50. In our league we have a right mixture of tables and on some the 50-50 split break shot is on, but the problem with our league is we play for the fun and social side (dinking lots) and tables are not maintained in the best of conditions and often roll off to ome side or the other.

Anyway this is all

[taffy]

Jan 11, 2017 13:25:57 GMT Chris_Sav said:

Bar billiards slate is 12mm thick, quite honestly barely thick enough! and three quarter length slate tables have a known propensity for cracked slates under the front middle where the support is poorest (I add angle iron).

You are governed by the thickness of whatever is in the table now for ease of installation. Any thinner and you would need a support frame under the slate (as normal) to bring it up to the correct thickness. Any thicker and you will need to drop the support rails to get the top of the slate snug under the cushions. 

thank you. I'm sure it will be 'bleedin obvious' when I look at it but from the outside it was a hypothetical question I guess.

not really off subject Dave....its all added info. I got the trophy for highest break two seasons on the trot and if I recall, they were 3,000 which is really stupid when you think about it. its a league game and as Tommo says, get 2,000 and the games are mostly put to bed.

far from being happy, my landlord was just whispering under his breath: "!oy, enough Taff, c'mon, enough mate!!". as this was a stupid action it came easily to me.

my maths is now better thanks Tommo!

Interestingly Dave, the object ball up to the top and back to the 50 is an even vaguer shot than my shot towards the 10 hole and the cue ball has to have some speed in it after the object ball has flown off! there's no lack of talent in doing that one!

I DID NOT WORK OUT WHY THE RED WAS THE CUE BALL. EVEN COMING HERE I DIDN'T! But 70 v 110 is why isn't it.... 'there's nowt as blind as those that will not see' I suppose!

regards

Taffy

[daveuk1]

Taffy red up in the corner and back in the 50 while the cue off the cushion into the opposite 50 is the only way to a 150 break. Ask the Hastings lot and the England team, they all tried the standard split break shot with little success.

You will have to come down the bay horse the Friday before our open and join in the traditional pre open piss up, there's normally a few games played in-between drinking

[alanturner]

Jan 10, 2017 9:43:37 GMT taffy said:

Hello

things going on with Mr Other's table are:

we start with a question:
1) has anyone ever cut up or drilled slate? i say drilled but that is probably the wrong term? it is just that there are old snooker table slates for sale really cheap and I wondered if they can be cut to shape and then the holes put in?

comments on slate would be appreciated!

2) recently I have had the table tilted towards the player in order to give the ball a good roll off the top cushion. this works nicely and the player can play a softer shot for what they want. a re-cloth would be better but we await this?

3) I purchased a set of Snooker balls this weew. I have played for the first 5 weeks with 7 whites of which one had polca dots marked on it with felt tip. now I have two proper reds and was able place the two whites in a box and replace them. the weight of all the balls is - luckily 90-95 grammes so happy days!

4) Alan Turner mad me a beautiful set of skittles and then I read of the Sudbury leagues rules and noted the base of the skittles could be 18mm not 16.5mm as they came. so Alan made me a second set and they are 10mm shorter and 18mm across the base. You can hit them a little harder and the whole skittle moves rather than falls. as i'm within the rules I feel that this is a good move.

5) the breal shot is nearly impossible, either one stays up and down or either or both, all on a 'hair's breadth' of change. the table is on the maximum playing length of 143cm so maybe this has something to do with it?

6) after several weeks of use and 30 games per week, yes 30, the clock mechanism is better than ever with the oiling it got. so sometimes you have to wait!

7) the 'quill' was going ten to the dozen and the longest a game was lasting at full stretch was 8.30. after a word from tommo, it transpired that the quill should have a weight on it and this slows the speed down of the quill. so i fitted a block connector that are used in auto electrics and placed it the correct distance. the game now lasts just under 18 minutes which is deemed the right time by 3-pin tommo.

8) the balls were BANGING into the drop board so i changed the hardened congealed rubber mess for CONDENSED FOAM RUBBER 10mm thick and it's brilliant! no noise and no mess, far better than felt.

9) the trough had sponges in each bay but after years of lack of use the sponge was being smashed and then the balls hit the board here as well. more CONDENSED FOAM RUBBER and i can hear a pin drop while the balls are coming back.

10) next problem, even when made, i think this had 4mm ply and the balls dropping in the 100 and 200 really 'bangs' so much so the gate goes a few seconds early when the ball goes down the 100. I need to either put thicker cloth on the runs or as i suspect use screws instead of nails to hold the ball guides/runners - its these that rattle!

that is all!!!!

regards
Taffy