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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 6, 2008 6:50:08 GMT
The Mid-Sussex League welcomes 2 new teams for next season, which will give us 2 Divisions with 8 teams in each division, as shown below:-
Premier Division 1. Handcross Z 2. Hurst Club B 3. CKRBL 4. Greyhound 5. Plough 6. Hurst Club A (promoted) 7. Brewers Droops (promoted) 8. Sportsman (promoted)
Division 1 1. St Francis (relegated) 2. Watermill A (relegated) 3. White Horse 4. Royal Oak (ex Windmill) 5. Brewers Bravos 6. Watermill B 7. Laughing Fish (new) 8. USC (new)
All teams will play each other Home & Away meaning a total of 30 League matches during the season.
A full fixture list will be sent to all Teams prior to the start of the season, however a few dates are shown below for information:-
17/09/2008 - First League Matches 05/11/2008 - Team Cup 1st Round 17/12/2008 - Last League Matches before Christmas Break 07/01/2009 - First League Matches in New Year 21/01/2009 - Team Cup & Plate Quarter Finals 25/03/2009 - Team Cup & Plate Semi Finals 13/05/2009 - Last League Matches
Due to the increased number of League matches, there will NOT be a Charity Cup Competition run this season, however the Committee will be looking to hold an alternative event and would welcome any suggestions from member teams on what format this should be run under.
Good luck to all, I look forward to seeing you all during the course of the season! ;D
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Post by bigtj on Aug 6, 2008 9:14:13 GMT
Good to see a league increasing its numbers and hope others can follow suit, but without being pesimistic it looks as though both Brighton and Worthing could loose teams.
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 6, 2008 9:39:14 GMT
Good to see a league increasing its numbers and hope others can follow suit, but without being pesimistic it looks as though both Brighton and Worthing could loose teams. Yes, it is good news for Mid-Sussex...... although one of the new teams is joining us instead of playing in Lewes League next season due to their "Toads" commitments on Monday evenings....!! :o :-X The other new team is a new venue for Bar Billiards, apparently the table was installed by request of some of the members there who used to play several years ago so it's great to see that people still want to play the game and have the enthusiasm to set up a new team. ;D 8-) It would be a shame if strong Leagues like Brighton & Worthing will lose teams next season, let's hope that the people who have been playing for those teams will retain their interest and play elsewhere in the future.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 9:45:11 GMT
Smart lineup, Dave.
I would like to welcome H and the Laughing Fish, also it will be good to see bar billiards back at the Royal Oak, who had the top team in the early 1980's when I started to play Mid Sussex.
30 league games will give everyone a fair chance to shine, hope our tables continue to improve in quality.
Two divs of eight is a really round figure, and surely we can run some sort of Charity knockout on a reduced scale just to keep it going. 8 v 8, 4 v 4, 2 v 2 and 1 v 1 only needs three separate nights from the league programme.
Isn't it about time Mid Sussex staged its own Masters event ? I don't mind donating a pair of Perpetual trophies if that's what it takes.
I should put this to the committee officially, of course, but it won't harm to gauge people's reactions.
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 6, 2008 10:35:01 GMT
Two divs of eight is a really round figure, and surely we can run some sort of Charity knockout on a reduced scale just to keep it going. 8 v 8, 4 v 4, 2 v 2 and 1 v 1 only needs three separate nights from the league programme. Isn't it about time Mid Sussex staged its own Masters event ? I don't mind donating a pair of Perpetual trophies if that's what it takes. I should put this to the committee officially, of course, but it won't harm to gauge people's reactions. The possibility of playing the Charity Cup with 4 groups with 4 teams in each was discussed, but the general feeling was that last season was too long (not in my opinion! :-X) and that some teams would not want to support it next season as there will be 4 extra league games. :'( I would love to see a Mid-Sussex Masters event taking place, I think that we now have a strong enough league to justify this and there would be support for it. ;D Possibly we could hold this in conjunction with a Charity Cup Day (either a team or individual event?) over a weekend to help to spread the cost of hiring the tables if there was sufficient interest from the teams / players? My company would happily sponsor some (maybe all, depending on the price?) of the cost of the hiring of the tables for the weekend to enable us to get it off the ground. More thoughts welcomed from Mid-Sussex players.....!! ??? ;)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 11:39:52 GMT
Ok lets have a bit of brainstorming, but we need open minds on this.
First of all, the committee in announcing that there will be no Charity Cup this season have used a feeble excuse, based on the format of recent years - Groups of 4 etc, no time to fit it all in.
Whilst I agree that this format is impractical with such a long league season, why not go back to a straight knockout, 8 v 8 (evening 1); 4 v 4 (evening 2); 2 v 2 (evening 3) and 1 v 1 (on Finals Night). At least that way it would be kept going, and there'd be a small amount raised for the charity - instead of nothing, and nothing !
Re: the Masters, thanks for your initial vote of support, and offer of additional sponsorship. But again, the First "Masters" needn't be on a grand scale. You may be surprised to know that I got the Horsham Masters off the ground some 20-odd years ago, and we fitted the whole competition in (for 16 players) using just three tables.
We used the Queens Head Bolney, and I got Tarratts (who are based close by) to put two tables in for the afternoon (a Saturday I believe). It was a straight knockout, 8 v 8, 4 v 4, 2 v 2 and 1 v 1. All of the Horsham League's top sixteen players were happy to take part, nobody dropped out. We used exactly the same format the following year and it was a magical event yet again.
Like I say, the first one doesn't have to be on a grand scale, and it doesn't have to encroach on other events or be fixed to a certain weekend when other things are taking place. If you think about it, you wouldn't even need to hire tables, there are enough of us in Mid Sussex who own our own and could lease them for a day at no charge. All we'd need is someone with a Volvo estate. ;)
Once the first one's been held, you can think about expanding the competition for the following year, and introducing a complicated group system to ensure that the best player always wins, plus a Plate, plus maybe even a special 'masters' for the laydees ;D
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Post by bobhall on Aug 6, 2008 12:46:05 GMT
i say what about a sussex style of the limes if tarrot cannot help us out with tables i do belive there is a number of people in sussex who own a barbilliards table and it only needs a van to take to destinations for a saturday such as hurst this would therefore have an entrence fee to the compition n we could make sum money n have a great day
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 6, 2008 13:01:26 GMT
Some good ideas there Clive which could make it easier (and cheaper) to get the idea up and running. ;)
Personally, I would have liked to have retained the Charity Cup (in some format) as a "curtain raiser" for the season, it gives a chance for the new / lesser players to play some matches (with success) before the League season starts and helps to get rid of some of the summer ring-rust that we all suffer from..... ::)
But the majority of the Committee thought that it would not be feasible to run it in addition to a longer season..... especially as it was poorly supported (financially) last season with the charity receiving a much lower amount than in previous seasons - despite more teams taking part. >:( :-[
With regards to making the Masters event a straight knock-out, I agree that this would make it easier to hold in a shorter period of time..... although I would personally prefer it if it were played in Groups in the same way that the Sussex Masters is played and I feel that more people would be interested in playing if the knew that they would get several matches, rather than potentially just the one.
I don't know what cost would be involved in hiring tables for a weekend, but there is always the alternative of using our own tables, as you say there are enough people who own their own tables so it would only be a matter of transport and setting them up properly.
With regards to the Charity Day, I did wonder about something similar to the Limes Triples..... either with member teams entering with 3 players, or having a draw from players who would like to play in the competition. If we can get sponsorship for the tables (or use our own) then the entry fees could go to charity, together with "peg money" and part of the raffle proceeds?
Just a few ideas to (hopefully!) start the ball rolling around and see what feedback we get......?? ;)
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DA-DM
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Post by DA-DM on Aug 6, 2008 13:05:22 GMT
you could avoid table disruption by travelling around owners houses in stages......... ;D
otherwise, i think that's a good idea - the hurst is big enough to hold such a competition.
sorry - posted in reply to bobble - i was beaten to it !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 15:38:52 GMT
Okay, we've started the ball rolling and hopefully Dave can take some of today's input and put it before committee.
I think realistically we are not going to get a Masters off the ground until after the new season has ended. But after speaking to Jean Brackenridge, she has convinced me that it would NOT be a good idea to start shunting our own privately-owned tables about the county, as Tarratts are still the active table operator for Sussex and should have first shout on supplying their tables to events.
You never know - a new competition, they might be willing to provide 2 tables for free (especially if the venue we choose is close to Twineham).
Re having competitions like at the Limes, I don't think many people from Mid Sussex would like to play in the 'close season' - or else we would already be running a summer league.
But for many seasons now we have run a league programme within a league programme with the Charity Cup so have had the best of both worlds. But the competition started out as a simple knockout, so it would be a shame not to revert to that now we have the ideal chance (a perfectly even number of teams).
I reiterate - only three extra evenings of bar billiards, a bit of fun, if you get knocked out - who cares ? And the competition is kept alive, ready for when it can be enhanced again.
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Post by bobhall on Aug 6, 2008 16:11:56 GMT
the limes competition could be done on a saturday or sunday during the league so it wouldnt effect too much and we could get a profiterble turn out
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Post by Sir Jock o The Strap on Aug 6, 2008 17:26:21 GMT
The committee discussed the inclusion/exclusion of the charity cup this season at great length, the general consensus being that we could not run it alongside the main competition, feeble as it may be, the overall feeling from the league was that it went on far too long last season. I personally would have liked to keep it alongside the main comp perhaps as a straight knockout comp. We have not 'announced' that there will be NO charity cup, just that the charity cup will NOT be run alongside the main comp. Hence the required input from the league its self as to how and when we run it. I personally do not want to see the demise of the charity cup as I feel that its a unique comp encouraging the newer players and equally frustrating the more experienced of us. I think its long over due that we have our own Masters Comp.
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Post by iang on Aug 6, 2008 18:11:37 GMT
Re having competitions like at the Limes, I don't think many people from Mid Sussex would like to play in the 'close season' - or else we would already be running a summer league. I think that there is a core of players who regularly play through the summer & a comp such as the Limes is only one day & not every week of the summer, I think that there would be enough support & it could grow. I would also like to extend a welcome to H & The Laughing Fish Team & also the United Services Club it should be as competitive as last season.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 18:57:56 GMT
the limes competition could be done on a saturday or sunday during the league so it wouldnt effect too much and we could get a profiterble turn out You seemed to enjoy the Limes, Boball, and I'm glad that you managed to get an invite. I think that there is a core of players who regularly play through the summer & a comp such as the Limes is only one day & not every week of the summer, I think that there would be enough support & it could grow. Glad to see some more adding to the debate, it was beginning to be just me and the Warrior. ;) Yes I would count myself among that core, but the events are only sporadic. Do we want to cater for that core with yet another summer competition for the benefit of the keenest players ? We should be thinking here of the grass roots of the league, which at present we seem to be punishing by discontinuing the Charity League - for some of them the only hope of a bit of success - or at least of turning over a good side. A Masters would be received well by those qualifying to take part, but I can't envisage any other new competition a) getting the support needed out of season (remember the Charity League had its detractors DURING the season!) and b) fitting in around everything else that goes on in the summer (Opens, holidays, Sussex competitions etc). I think a special Sparky Questionnaire is needed in the circumstances. ;D
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Post by Sparky on Aug 6, 2008 21:00:43 GMT
Hi, haven't had much chance to respond earlier but have read this with interest and since standing down from the MS committee, after about 10 years, I don't wish to be seen to either support or denigrate those that have made such a difficult decision the like of which I have been part of in previous years, however I have repeatedly supported the principles of our, somewhat peculiar to others, Charity comp as both a fund raising vehicle for a charity that any of us may have need at some point in the future and, perhaps more importantly for MS Bar Billiards, a good way of encouraging new or 'lesser' players and firmly believe that has been a major contributor to the flourishing of our league when many others do not.
However I believe that the committee had no other real choice after the comments made from all quarters following format decisions made in previous seasons.
In short they made a tough decision knowing they would be criticised whichever way they went and I wish it could have been otherwise from a long term viewpoint.
I hope that the constructive discussion and offering of ideas that has developed in this thread can help us find a solution that, may not be perfect but, could be workable.
PS I don't know all of the USC team yet but of the 7/8 players I hear have shown an interest only 2, apart from me, have played league BB before and interestingly one of the younger (to me ;D) players said how much better BB is to Pool and it was an 'up and coming' game.........now that was music to my ears, and it seemed he was talking for a couple of his mates too 8-)
PPS Big welcome to H and his mates and look forward to seeing them all soon.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2008 21:35:34 GMT
Thanks for your input Sparky, and I hadn't realised that you had stood down from the committee. But of course like me you will naturally wish to remain in touch with events !
I get very alarmed when decisions are made to 'junk' a long-standing competition. It happened in Horsham, and they are very difficult to restore, once gone. I was very encouraged by Jock's post in regard to the matter, and sincerely hope that the Charity Cup competition can be salvaged, even if it has to be in a scaled-down version.
This is my own opinion for the good of the league, b.t.w., as none of my team mates will be mourning its passing ! ;)
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Post by Q on Aug 6, 2008 22:44:42 GMT
I think realistically we are not going to get a Masters off the ground until after the new season has ended. Thats being defeatist Clive... I have been inspired by this thread and will now arrange for the 1st Cornish Masters to take place tomorrow at The Cornish Inn, Gunnislake ... I know that BOTH players will be there (I'm getting a lift) and the format for the evening will probably be: 7 frames of Bar Billiards followed by a similar number of games of Pool, winner obviously being the player who wins most games. We dont need to arrange tables because we already have the one bb table and one pool table needed. I feel confident of being at least runner up ;D To be serious for a minute... I think that the idea of a knockout charity cup is the best way forward, and it COULD be arranged for this season. Mid Sussex Masters? DEFINATELY... should have happened years ago (when I was still there and before BBreaper got this good) ;D As a matter of interest... who is on the new committee??
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 7, 2008 7:33:49 GMT
As a matter of interest... who is on the new committee?? Thanks for your input Q, I have PM'd details of who is on the Committee to you. Good luck in the Cornish Masters.......!! ;D
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 7, 2008 7:59:17 GMT
If somebody could PM a contact number for Tarratts to me, I will investigate the costs of hiring the tables?
At the moment, my thoughts would be either to hold a Masters & Charity Cup event at a weekend later this year, or to arrange it to be played on the days next to Finals Night when we would already have the tables in place at the Hurst Club.
Another thought that springs to mind would be to arrange a Summer Competition for those "enthusiasts" (such as myself! ;D) who like to keep playing after the season ends...... 8-)
I have been reading the reports from Guernsey with interest, where they play a series of round-robin singles matches at different venues and I wondered if this would be a possibility.....??
Any feedback on this idea would be greatly appreciated.
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DA-DM
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Posts: 837
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Post by DA-DM on Aug 7, 2008 9:54:23 GMT
Mid Sussex Masters? DEFINATELY... should have happened years ago (when I was still there and before BBreaper got this good) ;D you can always be an honorary member if you came for a holiday...... ;D I, for one, wouldn't qualify for the masters, but iwould definitely support it. I would also definitely join in the charity cup - being a lesser player etc where there's a will, there's a way...... p.s. who told jock where the smileys were ??
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Post by iang on Aug 7, 2008 11:50:01 GMT
If somebody could PM a contact number for Tarratts to me, I will investigate the costs of hiring the tables? At the moment, my thoughts would be either to hold a Masters & Charity Cup event at a weekend later this year, or to arrange it to be played on the days next to Finals Night when we would already have the tables in place at the Hurst Club. Any feedback on this idea would be greatly appreciated. This years Horsham masters was run on the Sunday of the week before Finals nght on Tuesday. We had 2 tables on Sunday & a further 2 were delivered for Tuesday we play the Masters upto semi final stage & then the Final is played on Finals night due to the dwindling number of people that are left in the hall on Sunday as they get knocked out they leave
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2008 11:51:55 GMT
At the moment, my thoughts would be either to hold a Masters & Charity Cup event at a weekend later this year, or to arrange it to be played on the days next to Finals Night when we would already have the tables in place at the Hurst Club. Another thought that springs to mind would be to arrange a Summer Competition for those "enthusiasts" (such as myself! ;D) who like to keep playing after the season ends...... 8-) Sounds as if you already have plans to take this to Committee fo discussion Dave, so we'll leave you to get on with it. A combined Masters and Charity League night just prior to Finals Night might just work - maybe if it was a simple Masters knockout just to kick it off, coupled with the playing of two Charity Semi-Finals. That way you would only need two 'preparation' nights (for 8 v 8 and 4 v 4). I do hope so - look how chuffed the Bravos and the Watermill B were at getting to play in last season's final on finals night ! I admire your great enthusiasm by the way, but you'll have to count me out of any summer league, some of us are just getting too long in the tooth for all-year-round b-b's. ::) Opens and the odd SCBBA competition (like the Watney Mann) is sufficient for me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2008 11:57:42 GMT
I, for one, wouldn't qualify for the masters, but iwould definitely support it. If the Masters turned out to be a success, the following year we could hold a 'Mistresses' and you could have a go in that ! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Sir Jock o The Strap on Aug 7, 2008 15:47:52 GMT
If somebody could PM a contact number for Tarratts to me, I will investigate the costs of hiring the tables? At the moment, my thoughts would be either to hold a Masters & Charity Cup event at a weekend later this year, or to arrange it to be played on the days next to Finals Night when we would already have the tables in place at the Hurst Club. Another thought that springs to mind would be to arrange a Summer Competition for those "enthusiasts" (such as myself! ;D) who like to keep playing after the season ends...... 8-) I have been reading the reports from Guernsey with interest, where they play a series of round-robin singles matches at different venues and I wondered if this would be a possibility.....?? Any feedback on this idea would be greatly appreciated. Hey big boy I like these, The Sussex Captains Cup is played in a 'could play anywhere' format as well. Or rather Nigel tries really hard to place matches in venues that the players would not in the normal course of a season, visit. Maybe the league needs to poll the teams and get an idea how many teams/players want to play the charity cup in any format. Then decide whether to retain it as a team event or turn it into a singles, or doubles, or triples running throughout the Summer for those who would like to continue in semi serious match play. I'm sure the landlords would appreciate it as well, as I know our landlord would be rather disappointed as his loss of revenue due to the shorter season. Lumping it all into one weekend at one venue is not for me the best of plans, but that is only a personal view. Regardless of how it ends up I would still want to take part. I also liked jollytallfarmers idea of perhaps playing the 'friendly' at the end of the evening as the charity match. I know, later finishes, or earlier starts the choices are endless, this format would only address the matches, not the finances and would effectively turn the charity cup into a singles or a doubles comp. Needs more thought to be viable.
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DA-DM
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Post by DA-DM on Aug 7, 2008 16:12:14 GMT
If the Masters turned out to be a success, the following year we could hold a 'Mistresses' and you could have a go in that ! ;D ;D ;D :o :o :o :o never been one of those............... i've been a bit of a ladette in my time. 8-) ;) ladymaster sounds like a kinky dominatrix, and i don't want to be one of those :-X :-X..........could always call it something thing the ladybird....... :-/
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Post by Sir Jock o The Strap on Aug 7, 2008 17:04:31 GMT
Ok so how about this? Just an idea mind, please feel free to expand it as you see fit. I am having to make a few assumptions here, but it is an idea in progress, how about something like this is for summer 2009. We know last match of 2009 is 13th May 09. Lets assume finals night is then on 27th May 09. (2 weeks after last match) And further assume that the AGM is on 10th June 09 (2 weeks after finals night) We could then start the Summer League on the 17th June 09 and run it until say the 2nd of September 09 giving us 12 weeks of match play. (feel free to alter these as you like and the matches would not necessarily have to be played on a Wed.) My format would be teams of 3. Playing 1 singles 1 doubles and 1 triples. The 3 would be made up from your own registered winter league team, which would allow for holidays, those who don't want to play and give your reserves something to play for so it would not necessarily have to be the same 3 that played every week. £1 per player donated to the charity pot each week would give us something in the region of £300+ to give to the charity. (loosely based around 12 teams playing each other home and away, maths could be all wrong, maybe some clever clogs can work it out better for me) Run as a straight league format with trophies for first second and third. All the usual rules would apply and the handicap system could still be utilized. This could work as it fulfills the need for those who wish to compete throughout the summer, and those who don't, it would also allow for all players old and new to still have competitive matches to practice upon and raises money for charity and keeps the landlords happy as well, but more importantly gives me further reason to spend most of my summer in the pub. All of this would be entirely dependent upon how many teams entered of course. Start could be as soon as 20th May. (1 week after last match, or later again depending on how many teams entered) What do you think?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2008 20:24:20 GMT
Great format for a Summer League, Jock, and you demonstrate a keenness to match that of the BB Warrior.
But from going from no summer activity in the Mid Sussex League for as far back as I can remember, it would now mean b-bs all the year round, which, knowing the M-S committee, just ain't gonna happen.
Good luck with it, though. If it's the only way to save the Charity Competition, I'd vote for it.
I was almost tempted to enter the Redhill Summer league this year (which is something like three singles, two doubles and a triples) but it would just have been too much.
I'm keener than most, but will definitely be taking a break after the forthcoming gruelling season of 30 games. Just 2 or 3 extra Charity games prior to Finals Night would have been perfectly acceptable though.
I believe Lewes run a Summer League: there is nothing to stop teams from Mid Sussex entering that ? :-/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2008 20:50:09 GMT
.......could always call it something thing the ladybird....... :-/ The ladybird competition :-/ We could get someone to sponsor a claret jug and get Padraig Harrington's little son to present it ! :o
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Post by Sir Jock o The Strap on Aug 7, 2008 22:45:59 GMT
Great format for a Summer League, Jock, and you demonstrate a keenness to match that of the BB Warrior. But from going from no summer activity in the Mid Sussex League for as far back as I can remember, it would now mean b-bs all the year round, which, knowing the M-S committee, just ain't gonna happen. Good luck with it, though. If it's the only way to save the Charity Competition, I'd vote for it. I was almost tempted to enter the Redhill Summer league this year (which is something like three singles, two doubles and a triples) but it would just have been too much. I'm keener than most, but will definitely be taking a break after the forthcoming gruelling season of 30 games. Just 2 or 3 extra Charity games prior to Finals Night would have been perfectly acceptable though. I believe Lewes run a Summer League: there is nothing to stop teams from Mid Sussex entering that ? :-/ Good comments tommo and some that I had anticipated, understandably an all year round playing format is going to have its problems, most of us needing that break from the game. But again I always believed that the charity cup was aimed at those of us that are less experienced, or those that are in the position of not playing regularly enough in the main season. Most of us are involved in teams with more than 6 players therefore the teams could easily revolve the players throughout the comp, gaining that all important break and getting in 2-3 matches as well. As for not having any summer activity in the Mid Sussex league since time immemorial, maybe that means there is scope to develop one? Not too sure on the Lewes summer league, which is rather annoying as I started playing Lewes League about 3 seasons ago and have never heard mention of it before.
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Post by BB Warrior on Aug 8, 2008 6:55:30 GMT
Great format for a Summer League, Jock, and you demonstrate a keenness to match that of the BB Warrior. But from going from no summer activity in the Mid Sussex League for as far back as I can remember, it would now mean b-bs all the year round, which, knowing the M-S committee, just ain't gonna happen. Good luck with it, though. If it's the only way to save the Charity Competition, I'd vote for it. I was almost tempted to enter the Redhill Summer league this year (which is something like three singles, two doubles and a triples) but it would just have been too much. I'm keener than most, but will definitely be taking a break after the forthcoming gruelling season of 30 games. Just 2 or 3 extra Charity games prior to Finals Night would have been perfectly acceptable though. I believe Lewes run a Summer League: there is nothing to stop teams from Mid Sussex entering that ? :-/ I don't believe that Lewes run a Summer League, certainly I haven't heard anything..... although both Brighton & Worthing run competitions that are open to teams outside of these Leagues. I'm not sure that there would be enough teams in Mid-Sussex that would support a summer Charity Cup competition, most of them seem to go into hibernation at the end of the season...! ::) But I do think that there could be enough individual players to run a similar competition to the Guernsey summer league which is run on a round-robin basis. ;D I will send an e-mail round to all member teams with a few suggestions and ask for feedback, if there is enough support for any of these ideas then I will put them forward at the next Committee Meeting.
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