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Post by gandalf the untidy on Oct 28, 2013 16:23:22 GMT
anyway who is the sleeping dragon?
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scotty
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 24
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Post by scotty on Oct 31, 2013 9:06:43 GMT
Hi Scotty, Welcome to the forum. Good to see someone taking an interest in the buying and selling threads and would be intrigued to know if I am speaking to a dealer, a potential private purchaser - or someone with a passing interest.
Hello Tommo,
I lost your answer, added my answer here.
Thanx for comments. I have some free time at present can give answers, comments and questions.
I am a private buyer, in fact I bought my table in earlier this year this year. I bought the table because I remember such tables as a boy with my father playing on them in the sixties. As we all know, pool tables and slots put an end to all of that. We played on them in recent years when we saw them.
I carted the thing to South Germany which is where I live, and installed it in my cellar. The table, I think, is exactly like the one above, in particular the "widthwise recess in the front panel", which is made is up of 2 panels, which can be seen in the picture on EBAY above.I have not seen this feature so often, normally just one half of the recess. Are you familiar with this difference?
I assume that the table is Sams, because:
Legs are square, althought the sides are bevelled (or does this mean octagonal to you?) In the corners of the slate, there are small triangle holes, which I have seen in all picture of "Sams". How else to tell them appart? Can it be a mixture top and bottom.
The reason to join the forum was to learn more about the table as it cost a lot of money and to seek advice about keeping it in good condition and repairing it etc.
It, to me, plays very well, straight ball movements, cusions bounce well. One pocket is a very little proud. I got aadvice on knocking it in. I still do not quite under the large screwdriver handle bit yet!
Originally the timer was not set correctly. The bar came down after about 14 minutes, but the timer went on clicking for another 4 minutes! Being fussy, I was not happy with this. Originally I thought that the bar was in the wrong position or that the release pin was contacing the bar incorrectly. However I soon learnt that it was the clockwork itsself. So I studied the clock mechanism and realised that the plunger pin was pushing the release plate to early. I tried to screw the plunger pin in as far as it would go, but it only increased the time before the bar dropped by 1 min. I then moved the "fixing nut" to the other side of the plate, to allow more screwing-in of the plunger. I think it was on the wrong side of the plate. Time till bar dropped increased another 2 mins. approx. I guessed that the plunger itsself, was too long so I sanded it down a little. I also gave the clockwork some oil. Now it is much quieter. I have set the time to about 17 mins. the bar now drops about 20 seconds before the clicking stops.
What is the accepted relationship to bar dropping and timer stopping? I have assumed that the sound of the timer slowing down should indicated to the players that the bar is about to drop and to hurry-up.
By the way, my clockwork has "Bar Billiards Co. Kent, Stelling Minnis 333" on the front plate and it is red in colour. Why red? It has 2 counters inside.
I guess that BB Kent, like you mention refurbished it in the past.
The pocket rings a a bit dirty, they are brown colour (bakelite) how is it best to clean them?
I have seen in the forum that the original mould was skipped! Replacements are bright red. What should I do. Keep and clean them or get new ones?
How easy is re-felting the table for an ameteur. Is it easy, dangerous (damage everthing) or can it be done by me?
2 of my mushrooms look like coat pegs from a DIY shop! Should I get new ones or do they come on EBAY sometimes.
By the way there is a serial number on the bar. Was this done by BB Kent?
scotty
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2013 13:02:24 GMT
Hi Scotty, I'm probably not able to answer all your questions in one go, but I'll have a go at some of them. Hopefully those I miss will attract a more instructive reply. Firstly, your table I imagine would be similar to the top one shown on this page of the Stelling Minnis website: www.bar-billiards.com/product.cfm(Yes they are still in the refurbishment business with a workshop but on a lesser scale than before when they were a "table operator" (hirer). I think it's just a one-man band now.) The round legs v hexagonal legs comment wouldn't apply in your case, that only applies to a Jelkes. The corners in the slate are there for a purpose: when you brush a table you do it downwards (towards the back of the table, and that's where the dust goes ! It's a handy job to give out in bob a job week to give the table a good vacuum inside (my granddaughter was grateful for some extra pocket money once and did the honours) Using the wooden handle of a screwdriver to knock pockets down is a good tip as it provides firmness whilst avoiding damage: Wood on plastic, wood on metal (a good way to remove burrs from metal is to simply go round with a pencil !) It sounds as if you have cured your timer problem. Yes the ticking usually continues for a while after the bar has fallen, that's quite normal. The 'Property of Bar Billiards Kent' and Stelling Minnis engraving in the diamond was just a show of ownership by them, as the timer is a valuable constituent of the bar billiards kit. You will probably also see a smaller engraving "S.V.Brevete" on the plate, this is a reference to the patent owned by the French or German manufaturer of the timers. Cleaning the pockets - well many of us have our own theories on this - going round them with a moist cloth is probably the safest method. Use anything else and the pockets tend to require regular maintenance, and - most important - you don't want any detergents to come in contact with the baize. It is possible to re-felt the table yourself, but there's an art to cutting the cloth round the pockete - and indeed securing the pockets from the underside. We have a separate thread going giving advice on this. Sets of Mushrooms and/or pegs come up occasionally on eBay; a brand-new set from James Masters or Mercury Leisure (check out their websites) will cost you upwards of £30. Finally, for regular maintenance, you need a stiff-haired brush to prevent build up of chalk residue, and a hot iron once in a while (say, after every three brushing sessions). tommo PS I used T Cut to clean out my dirty pockets but don't tell Sav I said so !
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scotty
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 24
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Post by scotty on Nov 2, 2013 16:04:18 GMT
Hello, It looks just like this one. Aug 13, 2013 at 7:15pm QuotePost by tommo on Aug 13, 2013 at 7:15pm Here's another quality SAMS, on sale from Rugby: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bar-Billiards-table-full-size-/261264469776Due to the upper and lower recess in the front panel, it seems that the return tray has been lowered slightly, by adding approx. 2cm of front panel. Most pictures do not have the upper and lower recess. Am I correct or just imagining things?
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scotty
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 24
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Post by scotty on Nov 2, 2013 17:47:51 GMT
Hello,
Thanks for the comments. Can you move this thread to the correct one for the table in Rugby in Aug. this year.
thank you.
Scotty.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2013 18:33:02 GMT
If that's the actual one you bought you did well to land it for just £449: I paid double that for mine. I would imagine that if any modifications have been made to the original, they would be minimal and found to be absolutely necessary. Unlike many refurbishers, Stelling Minnis knew exactly what they were doing. One matter of concern when looking at that original listing is the complete absence of a leather D. You will soon wear a hole in the cloth at that point without one.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2013 18:43:36 GMT
Hello, Thanks for the comments. Can you move this thread to the correct one for the table in Rugby in Aug. this year. thank you. Scotty. For the sake of convenience could I endorse Scotty's request (above) and ask for one of the moderating team to extract the original post on the 'Rugby table' as well as ensuing interchanges with Scotty and put them over to a special thread in their own right ? Many thanks in advance, tommo
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scotty
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 24
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Post by scotty on Nov 3, 2013 20:49:14 GMT
Tommo,
For clarity, I did not buy the table from Rugby. Mine was just very similar to the Rugby table. I payed infact more, and probably a realistic price.
Scotty
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2013 11:38:42 GMT
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 19, 2013 14:28:42 GMT
Interests me this one, is it a Sams? they are not Sams legs as we know them and the ball-trap looks odd but it still looks like a standard width Sams.
Sav
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2013 15:43:14 GMT
SAMS - or Jelkes-conversion-to-look-like-SAMS table (can't say for certain as legs not shown). Location: Reading www.ebay.co.uk/itm/wooden-bar-billiards-table-/171179463670I reckon this would make a good purchase if the price was right. The tear at the the front is annoying but shouldn't affect play. (Easily overcome with a bit of creative cosmetic surgery.) Went for £360 after 12 bids. Bargain !
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 22, 2013 18:17:43 GMT
SAMS - or Jelkes-conversion-to-look-like-SAMS table (can't say for certain as legs not shown). Location: Reading www.ebay.co.uk/itm/wooden-bar-billiards-table-/171179463670I reckon this would make a good purchase if the price was right. The tear at the the front is annoying but shouldn't affect play. (Easily overcome with a bit of creative cosmetic surgery.) Looks like a mongrel to me!! enhancing the photo, looks like a Jelkes top on a Sams body,
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2013 17:08:08 GMT
This Clares of Liverpool table is on the SAMs thread as it has many similar attributes (eg standard width). Location: Rickmansworth, Herts: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bar-Billiards-Table-/190984122024Big minus point is the absence of (bowl-shaped) leg adjusters. Went for £670 after 18 bids.
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 29, 2013 19:33:58 GMT
Re the Sams table, nice lady tells me the legs are solid without height adjusters and there is nothing missing
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2013 23:52:24 GMT
All very well unless you have a sloping floor ! Stack of beermats on standby, methinks !
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 30, 2013 17:15:54 GMT
SAMS - or Jelkes-conversion-to-look-like-SAMS table (can't say for certain as legs not shown). Location: Reading www.ebay.co.uk/itm/wooden-bar-billiards-table-/171179463670I reckon this would make a good purchase if the price was right. The tear at the the front is annoying but shouldn't affect play. (Easily overcome with a bit of creative cosmetic surgery.) Went for £360 after 12 bids. Bargain ! On its way to Stelling Minnis
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 17:42:05 GMT
On its way to Stelling Minnis A good bit of business for Ivor !
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Post by Chris_Sav on Nov 30, 2013 18:16:33 GMT
On its way to Stelling Minnis A good bit of business for Ivor ! Nope, I sent him the picture, he had not realised it was a mongrel!! has just rung hehe!!
Sav
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2013 18:56:00 GMT
Nope, I sent him the picture, he had not realised it was a mongrel!! has just rung hehe!! [/p]
That makes sense to me now.....Ivor is used to creating mongrels from pedigrees, and this one has already lost its pedigree.
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scotty
Junior Forum Member
Posts: 24
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Post by scotty on Dec 1, 2013 7:00:41 GMT
What makes this one a mongrel? The top does not match the base?
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 1, 2013 8:41:12 GMT
What makes this one a mongrel? The top does not match the base? Correct, the top and the body are of two different makes and poorly fitting from what I can see, hence the very poor picture I'm guessing.
Ivor spotted that the top had the table operators plate on the front and thought it was one of his old ones. He did not realise that the Jelkes top had been "cut 'n shut" with a Sams body until I sent him the enhanced picture.
Caveat emptor!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2013 11:07:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2013 14:24:07 GMT
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 6, 2013 15:13:26 GMT
Looks like a very early Sams from when the two Brothers hadn't quite settled on a common design.
I too am very curious as to how the side by side slot works when the bar is only one slot wide
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 12:46:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 13:12:39 GMT
SAMs from Reading (there have been a few from that area recently !) www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bar-Billiard-Table-/301044807443Not sure if it's narrow or normal size: second opinion needed ! Went for £896.66 after 20 bids - and after Sav confirmed that the table is "narrow" !
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Post by Chris_Sav on Dec 16, 2013 13:15:15 GMT
Defo narrow, Mike Lodge (another Ivor Champion) the seller, note the home made leg adjusters
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2014 12:09:34 GMT
SAMs table from Wakefield in good condition, an unwanted acquisition with a house purchase. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-bar-billiards-table-/251421114099The ugly great lock is suggestive of past use in a public house. Would love to see a close-up of the labels on the front. This listing was ended by the seller because the item is no longer available. Private offer made ?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2014 17:25:02 GMT
We have 2 more Sams going up today so keep an eye out on those, they are really really nice, fully re-clothed. Ex comp tables again. Between this forum and us we're looking £700 each for them, they are worth every penny and although we may have got lucky with the last one that went for £1k, we see them going for well over £750/800. ....and here they are (well, the first one, anyway !): www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bar-Billiards-Table-SAMS-Ex-Competition-Table-Brand-New-Cloth-2-Available-/331112223207@ 24/01/13 this comment added: Quote on eBay: According to our source, the second one went for £850.
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enzo
Distinguished Member
Posts: 637
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Post by enzo on Jan 24, 2014 21:20:03 GMT
One down one to go, going to let this one run if I can 70+ watchers. Hopefully someone can spot a good table when they see one.
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