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Post by bobhall on Jun 4, 2018 19:30:08 GMT
Actually I found Tony's off topic  interlude quite refreshing - bit like having some intelligent adverts between programmes on TV or something 'lite' inbetween the long and often Heavy posts on this thread, bit like receiving a gift to make you smile-  Anyway....to be myself - Tony I think a Bar Chart would show decline/increase more easily. Most Opens were cut at 96 as the maximum entries ( Sav is right there was a Sussex one where it was extended to 108 with reserves but that was from 96 ) Sudbury 4 Pin is capped at 64 therefore their entries year on year have been and are 100% as a bar chart Sussex if capped at 96 would be 2016 - 79% 2017 - 73% 2018 - 75% showing a decline in 2017 and on the up this year The others could easily be worked out. The issue we have is opens shouldnt be capped as there are grand prix points and ranking points so everyone should have chance to enter within the time limit |
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Post by Chris on Jun 4, 2018 19:39:08 GMT
Trouble is Bobhall it all depends on
a)the venue and how may tables it can take
b)the format e.g.groups
c)the day would run into the wee hours after midnight if a and b were not considered when running an event
Many forms give a maximum re entries and state on a first come first served basis - the closing date is usually there because the draw needs to take place, so often closing dates are secondary in consideration to an event and also are extended at times
Even the World Championships were capped whether they reached numbers or not in days gone by
The Off the Spot AEBBA will be capped this year at 64 again.
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Post by bobhall on Jun 4, 2018 21:11:27 GMT
We now have about 4 discussion themes going on this one thread, which itself was split away from another originally.  Good because the topic has got to much lets just play barbilliards enjoy barbilliards and have fun |
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Post by Chris on Jun 4, 2018 21:15:55 GMT
Yes but it adds to the fun Clive.. as in confusion.
I think I suggested a few posts ago that any FUN or new rules leagues re 4 pin were started on a new thread.
What I am seriously saying is that someone should move the parts that discuss the variations of the game to a new thread. If I could I would.
By the way your 4 pin against Eastbourne looked FUN
Chris x
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Post by Chris on Jun 4, 2018 21:17:46 GMT
Agree Bobhall - and let's just smile
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 21:37:00 GMT
Right then, but excuse me if from now on I am selective in the points I answer. Here is my updated spreadsheet showing entries to events since 2007. NationalStats.ods (30.16 KB) Simply click on the tabs at the bottom to see line chart graph for each, and click on Sheet1 to get back to the figures. Updated for 2018.....Oxon down; Northants up; Surrey, Guernsey and Sussex holding firm; Kent next one under the microscope ! |
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Post by barbelman on Jun 5, 2018 8:14:43 GMT
Right then, but excuse me if from now on I am selective in the points I answer. Here is my updated spreadsheet showing entries to events since 2007. Simply click on the tabs at the bottom to see line chart graph for each, and click on Sheet1 to get back to the figures. Updated for 2018.....Oxon down; Northants up; Surrey, Guernsey and Sussex holding firm; Kent next one under the microscope ! Can't open it....  |
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taffy
Distinguished Member
Posts: 514
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Post by taffy on Jun 5, 2018 8:56:29 GMT
I have an old computer and it opens fine. pays to be out of date now and again! well done Tommo, a lot of effort as always. Sudbury Open some day?
cheers
Taffy
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Post by barbelman on Jun 5, 2018 10:09:18 GMT
Yes but it adds to the fun Clive.. as in confusion. I think I suggested a few posts ago that any FUN or new rules leagues re 4 pin were started on a new thread. What I am seriously saying is that someone should move the parts that discuss the variations of the game to a new thread. If I could I would. I did...this is it!! |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 5, 2018 10:18:09 GMT
Removed, see below.
Converted to PDF
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Post by JB on Jun 5, 2018 10:51:18 GMT
Think this just proves Nigel’s point that there are so many comps now that people are picking which ones to enter which is going to have an impact on entries.
If myself and Alan entered every open plus Bournemouth, Guensey & jersey (we do these three most years) it would be approx £1200
This is without any petrol, food, spending money.
Add on top of that the cost of travelling, food etc to the AEBBA events is it a surprise that Opens and some AEBBA comps are struggling.
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Post by Chris on Jun 5, 2018 12:45:58 GMT
Yes but it adds to the fun Clive.. as in confusion. I think I suggested a few posts ago that any FUN or new rules leagues re 4 pin were started on a new thread. What I am seriously saying is that someone should move the parts that discuss the variations of the game to a new thread. If I could I would. I did...this is it!! Sorry I did not realise  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 13:53:22 GMT
Doesn't show the graphs, Sav.  |
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Post by Chris_Sav on Jun 5, 2018 15:26:56 GMT
NationalStats.xls (133.5 KB) Did not spot all the other tabs. Saved as an Excel 2003 file, too big to save as a pdf
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2018 15:59:00 GMT
Thanks Sav.
Jean's comments about selective entries rings true: also to be factored in are varying keenness (my own maxed at around 2009/10), car reliability and of course certain of us are becoming old and crotchety and trying to cut down on playing anyway.
Nigel is also correct in saying the standard at the top has always been high with some players achieving perfection: It's just that some of the faces are different. It is noticeable though that a couple of the Opens have recently suffered a reduction in local player interest - although the contrary applied to the recent well-supported Northants.
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Jun 6, 2018 5:46:48 GMT
Heavens above tommo i wouldn't have beleived this of you "to suit some players to the detriment of others"Please explain this comment Gandalf as "me no understandy". You have quoted your own post (to which I gave a 'like') so I am not sure of the gist. Sorry Tommo my Colin Quip fell at the first hurdle again, i was referring to my opening post on risk v reward for difficult shots, i thought that the 50/50 break was twice as risky as the 50/10 with twice the chance of pegging out so changing the red and white position would upset the balance IMHO and therefore a rule "to suit some players to the detriment of others" |
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Jun 6, 2018 8:07:16 GMT
Hi gandalf
I don't think it is twice the risk. while the object ball has to be hit to perfection, the cue ball deflects at half the viariance of the object ball. basically, you have a 2 degree window for the object ball. outside those 2d and you miss. in the meantime the cue ball varies by half that amount. so you can miss with the object ball at the 10 hole (worth 20) and the cue ball is a sure shot in comparison.
The Nmkt shot means a white object ball possibly missing and the whole raison d'etre is that red in the 50 (worth 100) so the valuable ball is the surefire ball to get right and the white object ball can 'wander'. makes interesting BB that! sometimes it rims and comes back in the 50, 100 or the 200 or at least is flushed out up the table which I like. I'mm always looking for one sure-fire while i like to flush the other up the table a few inches. anything between the holes can only go in the two nearest holes. anything up the table can be used for bigger scores or a clearer defined path to a 50/100/50 hole.
I did mention it in my risk and reward too!
Taffy
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Jun 6, 2018 8:54:39 GMT
wow....  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2018 9:53:08 GMT
Sorry Tommo my Colin Quip fell at the first hurdle again, i was referring to my opening post on risk v reward for difficult shots, i thought that the 50/50 break was twice as risky as the 50/10 with twice the chance of pegging out so changing the red and white position would upset the balance IMHO and therefore a rule "to suit some players to the detriment of others" Ah ! Well I look at it this way. At three-pin the lucrative shot is the 50 to 100 split. But with the risk attached of whipping the 100 and having the peg. 200 scored if succesful. The safe option is to split 50/20. 120 scored if successful. 60% of the above At four-pin the lucrative shot scores 150, the reduced risk (but still a risk as Taffy says) scores a mere 70 (less than 50%). So we're asking for 110 which is 73.3% (still less than three-quarters). And - we're not taking anything away from you. |
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Jun 6, 2018 11:13:43 GMT
yeh, what he said!!
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Jun 6, 2018 13:07:47 GMT
Double wow!! will have to ask Nige to check your dubious maths and Logic  |
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taffy
Distinguished Member
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Post by taffy on Jun 7, 2018 8:22:24 GMT
over the years, what have been the various rules on balls rimming and the next shot?
Taffy
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Jun 7, 2018 11:29:55 GMT
over the years, what have been the various rules on balls rimming and the next shot? Taffy as far as i know, while any balls are moving its a foul shot to play the cue ball |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 12:17:36 GMT
as far as i know, while any balls are moving its a foul shot to play the cue ball Likewise, having the black over has always carried the penalty of loss of total score - unless a separate foul (eg white knocked over) is committed first. Some leagues go further, saying the greater foul penalty counts. |
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taffy
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Post by taffy on Jun 7, 2018 13:16:37 GMT
I meant while 'rimming' in the hole Gandalf? you know, going around the rim.
Tommo, Sudbury have that rule.
Taffy
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 14:15:55 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the whole ball has to have dropped below the surface of the hole before the next shot can be played.
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Post by gandalf the untidy on Jun 7, 2018 14:51:30 GMT
I meant while 'rimming' in the hole Gandalf? you know, going around the rim. Tommo, Sudbury have that rule. Taffy  |
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dillon
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Post by dillon on Jun 7, 2018 15:23:33 GMT
I meant while 'rimming' in the hole Gandalf? you know, going around the rim. Tommo, Sudbury have that rule. Taffy er...um...ever seen a stationary ball that is rimming? Me neither. |
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Post by Chris on Jun 7, 2018 18:28:39 GMT
er...um...ever seen a stationary ball that is rimming? Me neither. Great Post If a ball is moving on the table and the next shot is taken it is a foul. |
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Post by Chris on Jun 7, 2018 18:30:10 GMT
Really not sure what this has t do with 4 pin ?? What on earth is this leading to ??
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interlude quite refreshing - bit like having some intelligent adverts between programmes on TV or something 'lite' inbetween the long and often Heavy posts on this thread, bit like receiving a gift to make you smile- 
